In part I of my two-part conversation with ASU's co-defensive coordinator and linebackers coach, Antonio Pierce describes what the virtual coaching world looks like through his interactions with players. Pierce also provides his assessments of his position group coming out of spring practice.

Hod Rabino: How have the last two months been during the pandemic?

Antonio Pierce: “Very virtual. I’m in these clouds man (laughs). It’s been different. It’s been adjustments. Obviously, you got to take the punches when they come and we're just doing our best to try to stay as current and as fluent in keeping our guys engaged and staying on top of them as they’re from afar. It’s almost like you're recruiting your own players again.

“You’ve got to stay on top of them. You’ve got to get them up. You’ve got to make sure they don’t gain new bad habits from obviously being home and being away from a structured environment, which a lot of these guys have been in for two or three years now. But I think the best part about it, hat it’s made it unique and fun and guys have had to find new ways to learn. We try to find new ways to coach so I think it’s been a blessing in disguise. Obviously, you’d love to have the guys here but you’ve always got to find new ways to be creative and we’re doing that now.”

Hod Rabino: Was it somewhat easy now being 100 percent virtual in your recruiting processes since you had already been taking that approach somewhat in the past?

Antonio Pierce: “I think so. Because most of the time where you're recruiting, you’re doing that through FaceTime and obviously, social media. Zoom wasn't that big for us but that's now become the biggest hitmaker- is zooming everything. But I think for the most part, even here at ASU with what we’ve done with our classes online. That’s how I was coaching my guys. A lot of it was through the iPad. It was through the phone with different ways of me showing them and trying to keep them engaged.

“So, I think, for at least my unit, we were pretty much ahead of it because I knew the best way to get to them was through their phone. And then that's how a lot of our communication came through that obviously, the time I would have with them in person was always different videos and stuff like that. So, it was easy in being able to adapt for it for us as linebackers and move forward. I think as a unit, though, it's been challenging.”

Hod Rabino: What have you learned about yourself and your players during these last two months when the Pandemic shut a lot of things down?

Antonio Pierce: “You got to be patient. There are times where you’re putting a meeting together and the video’s not popping up or is not as smooth…it's very fluid (situation) and you have to be open. And if you weren't open and you're close-minded in your culture person, and if you weren't up today with technology you’re going to struggle.

“I think what I learn from my players is that there have been some guys that have really stepped up. There have been some guys who have taken steps back, who have used this as an excuse. There have been others that are going to make the most out of it. They're going to be at the game mentally. I think from this standpoint of what we've always preached here is giving them knowledge and trying to give them everything that we have to make sure that they have the tools to then proceed in a positive way on the field. And I think some guys have taken it and ran with it and others have kind of been complacent. And that's going to change.

“Whenever we get back here and we’re able to press enter and get these guys back in the building, you’re going to see who’s been working out. You’re going to see who’s been running. You’ll know who’s been paying attention. You can’t cheat the game of football".

Hod Rabino: Are most of the players back home or are any of them here in the Tempe area?

Antonio Pierce: “We got a few. I would say we have between 15 and 20 ASU players overall here in Tempe or the surrounding areas. The rest of them went back home, like the young guys from Georgia, Louisiana. I think Chip (DeaMonte Trayanum) from Ohio, he’s here. A lot of the California guys went back but it’s probably like 30 percent of our players are here.”

“For myself, I’m not going to California. I don’t want to be in quarantine for 14 days so I’ve kept my butt right here in Arizona.”

Hod Rabino: How valuable was it to get seven of your spring practices in before the rest were canceled?

Antonio Pierce: “Critical. Especially for the two young guys (linebackers) Jordan Banks and Caleb McCullough coming in early. We were able to evaluate them through seven practices, see if they can play at this level physically and how quickly they can play. The other part is just their retention from a mental standpoint. That's been good. I think it was good because the plan for us to play a lot of our younger guys or give them a lot of reps in the spring and.

“We had a situation with Merlin Robertson with his father passing, he was missing some time. We just wanted to rest him from the wear and tear of playing two years straight. So, a lot of guys like Elijah Juarez, Kyle Soelle and the two young freshmen got a lot of opportunities to grow mentally and physically on the field. And for us, it was a blessing.

“We naturally go back and while we’re looking at these Zoom meetings, you can coach that up. You can go back and correct technique and fundamentals and alignment and stance. Things that you wouldn’t be able to do if you didn’t have that opportunity in the spring.”

Hod Rabino: When you look at the film of the seven spring practices were you pleased with how well the defense took to the 4-3-4 scheme versus 2019’s 3-3-5 alignment?

Antonio Pierce: “Most of the time (last year) we were getting into some kind of four-down look. They just happened to be a linebacker being that fourth defensive lineman. But now we put four guys that are always used to putting their hand in the dirt and playing at the line of scrimmage go at it and you can see that we have some talent there.

“We need more. We need more height and length which we keep on stressing. But you can see that because we’re returning a lot of players that played a lot of football. We’re not a young defense no more. It’s not taking several times to get our point across. You can make a correction one time and you can see that being adjusted either the next period or your next practice. So, we’re fortunate in that sense that these guys played as freshmen and sophomores and juniors but you can definitely see that they’re a lot more comfortable going straight into a hit and really just kicking people’s asses in front of them.”

Hod Rabino: You talked about the struggles linebacker Merlin Robertson had last year. Have you seen him turn a corner that could make him revert to his 2018 level of performance?

Antonio Pierce: “That’s the plan. Again, sometimes you get caught up into everybody patting you on your butt. And I think he did that, and he took it for granted. Also, there are not a lot of student-athletes that go through what he goes through. When he goes home to every day being a father. So, with that, you’re talking about a kid that’s mature, that deals with a lot, and has dealt with adversity growing up. He’s been dealing with adversity since he’s been here.

“But he understands. He knows that the moment when that window is closing, either here at ASU as a student-athlete or if he chooses to go early into the NFL draft or he chooses to stay, he's got to make better decisions. He's done that. He's grown. He's now 20, about to be 21. So, that's another growth from that standpoint. You just see the transition from a teenager to a young man to a man. He’s making strides and it’s a day-to-day process.

“And the thing about it is that we have an open relationship where we talk about everything. So, I think he’s more comfortable in his skin today than he was as a freshman and this is his moment. He has a great opportunity in front of him.”

Hod Rabino: Ironically just hours before you and are talking now, a report came out with ESPN’s NFL Draft expert Mel Kiper Jr. projecting Merlin as a top-five linebacker in the 2021 draft if he chooses to declare. I know it’s just one more draft projection, but what do you make of it?

Antonio Pierce: “I knew that day one. The way I recruited him was a 36-month plan anyway. No different than Jayden Daniels - 36 months and if they do what they’re supposed to do they will probably have that opportunity to leave.

“If he (Robertson) leaves or not, that would be his choice and hopefully we make that together with enough vital information and educated information that comes from NFL and the people that are part of that process. But it’s always been planned that Merlin’s going to leave after his junior year. I knew that. That’s why we recruited two linebackers that signed and we’ve got another one coming in and I’ll recruit more linebackers this year. That’s why most of my linebackers don’t redshirt, knowing that ‘next man up’ mentality. Merlin’s got that opportunity in front of him. And if he plays well, I’m going to wish him luck and let him leave. And if he doesn’t and needs to come back for a fourth year, that’s a blessing for all of us.”

Hod Rabino: What did you see out of linebacker Darien Butler in terms of his progression from freshman to sophomore year and in the recent spring practices?

Antonio Pierce: “Good. I think the game has slowed down for him. I think we threw him in the fire as a freshman as a MIKE linebacker and WILL linebacker at times in the defense prior but he’s done a great job as far as just allowing the game to slow down for him and what you see now is him coaching up other young players, him taking Jordan Banks and Caleb McCullough under his wings. Now seeing it from a coach’s standpoint, the guy’s played in 26 college games as a starter. So that’s a very experienced football player there.

“Butler…he’s a football guy. He gets ball. So, I think the biggest thing for me, what I’ve seen from him is the game, him making adjustments, him taking command. Obviously, he was the captain last year but being more vocal. Expressing when something is good or expressing when something is bad to the unit. That’s been the biggest jump.”

Hod Rabino: In the last two years we saw Robertson and Butler switch back and forth between MIKE linebacker and WILL linebacker. What are your plans for 2020 as far as where they both will line up?

Antonio Pierce: “Same thing. I recruit linebackers I don’t recruit a MIKE. I don’t recruit a WILL or a SAM. I recruit linebackers and if they’re good enough, they can play all three spots. By situation and by formation, by personnel grouping, by the defensive call…you’ll see it throughout the season them being very interchangeable and that makes us better as a unit because you can never pinpoint where they’re going to be at on the field.

“And the better we get at that, the better they understand all three positions - the better we are. And now that we're playing with three true linebackers off the ball the majority of the time, that's what they've done in high school. Obviously, Merlin is different because he's big enough to play on the line of scrimmage. You won’t see that from Butler. He won’t be that guy no more. But you can see a Jordan Banks do that. You can see a Kyle Soelle do that. And that’s how we’ll move forward.”

Hod Rabino: Speaking of Kyle Soelle what were your impressions of him in the spring?

Antonio Pierce: “I’ve always loved Kyle Soelle because he’s Mr. Dependable. I can always bank on him. Throw him in the fire at any given time, at a position he either gets no reps at during the week and never even played the spot…he’s just a cerebral guy. He does a great job off the field in the classroom and that translates to on the field. He gets guys lined up.

“This spring, he played WILL and played MIKE. He played SAM. I wanted him to play all, get used to it. He has the natural abilities to be a leader. He’s one of the more vocal linebackers I have. And to be honest, he’s just having that spring like Khaylan Kearse-Thomas had (in 2019) when I say, he’s putting himself in position to be a starter. And I think he still is in that role.

“He’s always been a proven guy that when you plug him in. Think back to the Oregon game where was making plays, being in the right spot. He’s doing his job. You can count on him. When he’s in the game, I took out at the other two backers. He’s that kind of guy. So, I got a lot of high hopes for him. I think he’s going to be fine.”

Hod Rabino: What did you see from Elijah Juarez last season and in the spring?

Antonio Pierce: “Probably out of all the backers he has the most athletic ability and can do the most. But probably a knock on us is that we put him at running back for a little bit last year. So, we had that transition where anybody watching him when he went back at linebacker last year could see he was struggling. He was out of shape. He wasn’t used to running. But when you watch him, when he gets it, there’s not a better linebacker from point A to B than Elijah.

“And he’s coming in at 250 lbs., he’s one of the more explosive and fastest linebackers we have, and he’s put himself in position to be that fourth backer right now to compete with Kyle Soelle and those other guys and to push them. That was why I brought him in, to push the older guys. He doesn’t blink. The good part about it, he listens. He takes criticism very well. I get after him and he doesn’t blink. He does it with a smile.”

Hod Rabino: What did you see from the true freshman Jordan Banks and Caleb McCullough as they were experiencing their first taste of college football during those seven sessions?

Antonio Pierce: “Jordan Banks is probably more physically developed and ready to play than Caleb McCullough. Jordan’s an Alpha dog. He’s the guy that’s always been the guy. That’s been that vocal leader, and that’s the good part about it. There were a lot of times he was wrong but he was vocal, he was talking, he was saying something. So, he wasn’t shy about making a mistake. And you like to see that from a freshman.

“Caleb McCullough - he just needs to get through the weight room program. He’ll play a lot this year as a freshman and get that experience, and then you can see him probably very soon competing and pushing the older guys because he gets it mentally. He sees the game. He has a knack. I call it the ‘matrix’ of playing through trash. Finding and slithering his way to the ball carrier. You just watch him in practice, he’s always around the ball. As he gets better and more physical in the weight room with Joe Connolly and what those guys do, he’ll be an impact player for us.”

Hod Rabino: I know Tyler Johnson’s return to the team after his plans to retire were in no small part thanks to your efforts. Now, that he will play defensive end rather than an outside linebacker, how do you anticipate his potential contributions this year?

Antonio Pierce: “Tyler is a freak at 6’4 270. He can run, jump, change direction, do everything. I think the best thing Tyler did was giving himself a mental break from the game of football and just life in general. And when we had our talks at a couple basketball games, I got the sense I knew right away where he was going. I knew what he was asking me. And I told him when he’s ready (to come back) he’ll know when the time is right.

“And what he brings is a presence you don’t see often in college football. A guy that’s interchangeable on and off the ball who can do a lot of things for you. He can actually change the game with a big play. That’s what he’s done here in two years I’ve been here. He’s been Johnny on the spot. From the UCLA game two years ago - two sacks, a forced fumble in that game to last year, his last play in a bowl game picking up that fumble recovery (to seal ASU’s victory).

“Tyler is an older player. He’s been in the program for four years. He gets it. He’s a hometown hero, and the story’s going to be good. If he comes and gets with coach Rodriguez to take those next steps on the field and keep growing, maturing off the field, this guy is an NFL prospect. It’s not even a question. It’s just does he really want to be that?”

Hod Rabino: So, I guess at those ASU basketball games you were recruiting both Tyler Johnson and Josh Christopher?

Antonio Pierce: “Never stop working baby. Never stop recruiting.”

Hod Rabino: Since the minute he stepped on campus, I thought Stanley Lambert could have been an X-Factor. But a serious knee injury early in his career naturally set him back. Are you seeing some light at the end of the tunnel that makes you feel he could be a significant part of this defense?

Antonio Pierce: “No question. His thing was all mental. Most guys that that come off a knee injury, it takes a while to get over that ‘oh my god, I’m scared I’m going to hurt it again’ phase. And this spring, he was able to put his foot in the ground. We put him down in the three-point stance with the D-lineman because we think he’s only really effective at rushing the passer. And you can just see the growing and he’s still nowhere near where we want him to be. But he started to get to that curve where we said ‘okay, he can be the guy we saw two years ago.’

“Before the injury, he was running, jumping, hitting. He can do whatever you ask which in the game of football, what we ask our guys to do is we have to be mentally sharp. You have to prepare and prep each and every day to be successful in practice. And that’s his growth. And I think what he got out spring practice is we got him a lot of reps on film. So, there’s a good teaching tape for him to go forward. But the biggest thing for him is to put his head in that book and study it and learn it and be a sponge to coach Rodriguez and what he’s teaching that defensive line.”

Hod Rabino: With so many proven returning players at linebacker and in the secondary, do you believe it’s really up to the defensive line to make noticeable improvement for ASU to have one of the best defenses in the Pac-12?

Antonio Pierce: “Yes. Because when you look at our secondary with Jack Jones and Chase (Lucas), you’ve got two veteran corners. Fifth-year seniors that played a lot of football at a high level and (safety) Aashari Crosswell is another guy that can take that next step to what we saw as a freshman and then (safety) Evan Fields is a missile. Then you look at our second-team (defensive back) guys and say ‘damn, those guys could actually be starters on most Pac-12 programs.’ And the best part about them, they engage, they press, they push the guys in front of them. They’re not blinking. They’re not worrying about how many reps I’m getting. They just make the most of their opportunities.

“So, if we do what we think we can do with the front seven, especially with the front four which you’re asking me about, with guys like Steph (Wright) inside now. And if Amiri (Johnson), Stanley, Tyler, and those guys and (Michael) Matus and Shannon Forman…we haven’t had that much depth since I’ve been here. We’ve been praying and knock on wood; we have never had those serious injuries where we lost a player but we were always worried about that guy going down and who’s the next man in. We feel good now about the second team guys.

“The competition in each (defensive) room is at the highest it’s been. They know you cannot slip up and everybody’s being held accountable not by the coaches no more but by the players that have played a lot of football. And that’s the best part. That’s when you know you start having a winning team. When you don’t have to discipline and get after your guys. When players control it. When they control the stuff on the field and off the field.”

Hod Rabino: When it comes to fixing the defensive line, would it be oversimplifying saying that it’s just two solid pass rushers from not only bettering that group but also the entire defense?

Antonio Pierce: “You’ve just got to get your personnel and see what do they do best? Jermayne Lole when he gets a one-on-one with a guard or a center, he’s going to win. He did that a lot against tackles. I think it’s just a scheme, maximizing the personnel and creating one-on-one matchups. This is what I say about the Pac-12 being in it now about two years. We probably only have seen, I think drafted-wise, three or four offensive linemen who play on Sundays. So that means the rest of the guys we’re playing against, they’re college football players. They're pretty good. But if you can get a really good defensive lineman and create one-on-one matchups, you want to exploit some people.

“I think that's where we put the big emphasis at in the spring with our group, especially in recruiting as well. And if we can get that much better, create (favorable) one-on-one matchups with the guys we have here and the guys we’re recruiting, we’ll be a better unit and we’ll be a dominant unit for a while.”

Click here for the second part of our conversation where ASU's recruiting coordinator discusses how the Sun Devils are navigating the virtual recruiting process forced by the pandemic

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Jesse Morrison contributed to this article