It’s no secret that the ASU defensive line wasn’t entering 2020 with any swagger from the previous year, but its position coach Robert Rodriguez has helped turn the fortunes of that unit dramatically. I caught up with Rodriguez for a lengthy conversation about the state of his group and much more.

DevilsDigest: When you look back at a year ago today sure, there were a lot of unexpected events that took place but have some aspects matched your expectations in terms of the job itself or the manner in which your position group has progressed?

Robert Rodriguez: “To be honest with you, in many ways, it's exceeded my expectations. I knew that it was going to be a rebuilding process in our room, and I also knew that I would be greatly supported and would enjoy working with the people here. I have absolutely loved working here. My family loves it here. I've loved working for Coach Herm, Marvin [Lewis] and AP [Antonio Pierce], and I love coaching these players. I’m really proud of the progress that they made. This time of year is hard because we ‘self scout,’ and I'm really prickly and salty about the things we didn't do well. But, having perspective about how far they came and all they had to do to get there, I'm extremely proud of those guys.”

DD: It’s been almost eight years since your last college coaching gig at the University of Texas-El Paso, then you spent five years in the NFL with the Minnesota Vikings. Have there been any eye-opening moments once you arrived at ASU last year that reminded you how significantly different the NFL is from the college ranks?

RR: “There are lots of those, especially in recruiting because it’s such an inexact science. You can do everything right, and it doesn't work out in your favor. And then on the flip side of it, sometimes there's a kid that doesn't seem like he's interested, then it turns out, he loves you, and he's all in.

“I think the eye-opening moments for me have come in just how much the game has changed since I left, and there have been considerable changes. I think it's harder for a defensive coach in college football now than it was when I left. It was already hard back then. The landscape has changed in terms of recruiting; it's all been sped up. These players are thinking, committing, and talking about these things so quickly in their careers–that they're also being evaluated early in their careers.

“When I was in the NFL, I wondered why there were so many guys on my reports that had been five-star or four-star (prospect) that somehow had underachieved. That’s nobody's fault; everybody's doing a great job, everybody's working hard. But it's all sped up so much that you're evaluating them so early. Offers are coming so early; they haven't really been able to develop fully to where we get the big picture of who they are; we’re almost betting on what they're going to be. The guys who are early-developing can be rated high, and if they stop that development or growth, they’re still rated high and have all those offers, but that’s not necessarily how the pecking order falls. There are a lot of things behind the curtain that are a bit surprising.”

DD: The phrase ‘pro model’ is mentioned often in regards to the ASU program, and you were the first full-time assistant coach to come straight to ASU from the NFL. Can you tell us some of the ways that ASU mimics a professional team in the coaching and merely the way the program is run?

RR: “Organization is the first thing, making sure the avenue of communication between coaches and players is set up that way there's structure, but there's also a trust where you get to give them a little bit of room to be responsible for making decisions. You're trying to empower these players because, at the NFL level, you can't just tell them what to do. You really don't go to a guy and say, I want you to jump up and down three times; you have to show them the ‘why.’ You have to develop them that way.

“Teaching is emphasized here as opposed to other places where recruiting takes precedence over football... you find that the best teams in football at every level are well taught. They have great talent, but they also have a structure to teach them how to do things the right way. That takes precedence over anything else here. [The team emphasizes] treating people like adults and always preaching accountability. We don't curse out our guys. We try to motivate them, we treat them as adults, and we expect them to meet that standard. It comes with organization, that type of preparation–and no offense–but the dedication to the game is important in the offseason as part of that. The most growth I had as a football coach was in the offseason. There's so much that can happen in the offseason. I see that here. The way we attack projects, the way we talk football, it's a very productive environment.”

DD: What does most of your schedule in the offseason consist?

RR: “Part of turning the page is figuring out what worked for us last year. We are moving on and turning the page, but part of that is really taking a deep dive into what we did last year; and finding out what we're good at, the things that we need to cut out, where need we focus our energy… you have to do that in order to take the next step because we know how good we can be. We don’t want to add things that get in the way of that.

“The things that we put in front of our players this next spring, between now and the season, they can either be springboards, or they can be roadblocks, and we need to eliminate the roadblocks. Part of this process as we move forward is to eliminate the gray, eliminate the things that slow us down, and start putting things in front of these kids that make them successful. We are turning the page and taking a deep dive into that study, and exploring other defenses that have been successful at both the pro and college level that have done certain things we're trying to get done here. How can we implement this, even though they're from a different front or different scheme? How can we implement those principles? You really got to dive deep into the film to figure out the ‘why’ of why those things happen?

“It's good that we have connections in the NFL, so you can pick up the phone, call somebody and ask them why they did it that way. That helps too. But let me tell you–recruiting is always in the mix. It's always in the mix. You can't tell me, ‘Hey, man, did you brush your teeth or recruit?’ because you gotta do both. It's a non-stop deal. It's kind of funny. I think it's harder to be a very good coach because you got to recruit so much. Part of it is attention; you got to give the kids attention and spend time with them; those things are important. But, the same thing to the game of football: if you don't pay attention to it and don't spend time on it, you will lose that relationship… the game will continue to evolve, and you will get left behind. You have to cultivate relationships with your recruits and players and with the game of football itself. You got to give time to all three. That's why we have very little time to ourselves. Very few hobbies in the coaching profession [laughs].”

DD: I understand that the ASU defensive line isn’t going to play as well as the Vikings, or that Jermayne Lole isn’t Aaron Donald. Yet, from a practical standpoint, can you take aspects from the NFL ranks in terms of mechanics and techniques, and implement them in a college player, here at ASU?

RR: “That’s a common thing. When we watch the great ones, and you're talking about a great one, not only does Jermayne Lole say that, but 99% of the NFL looks at that dude and says, ‘I can't do that.’ What people don’t realize is that the NFL has guys who are talented, but they're not freaky talented. They have to do things the right way; they have to maximize their ability or figure out the thing that they're great at in order to survive and provide value for the teams.

“There are so many great examples of guys getting the most out of themselves in the NFL because they focus so much time and energy into that. There are certain guys who aren’t big or don't have long arms, so they have to work on being super-cat quick. You still have to be balanced, and that's a difficult road. Other guys are big, and they're not that quick, so they have to maximize their play on edges to be strong but not be slow. There are so many examples for different players; what I like to do is coach off of the movements and the techniques.

“When we teach pass rush, the majority of young guys will go watch Aaron Donald, and the mistake that they're making is there's a lot of great things they can’t do because Aaron is extremely gifted. And he can do certain things that you cannot get away with. Chandler Jones is another good example. He's a great technician, but the way he can jump in, bend, and get himself in a tough position and still be okay, that's not good for some of my guys; they just can't do that.

“When you study the movements, the pass rush moves, you start watching guys whose names you don't know. You start to figure out and see things that make them successful: the balance in the feet, the angles, the hand placement, the body lean, the timing, and just the overall aggression that they play with. [When players] watch Aaron Donald, sometimes they're like, ‘I gotta be Superman. I got to put a cap on.’ But the cool thing about getting into the NFL is not every one of those dudes is uber-talented. They're all talented––don't get me wrong. But it's how they get the most out of their bodies, the young guys can learn from at every level.”

DD: You probably still chuckle at the low expectations that folks, including myself, placed on this defensive line coming into 2020. From day one, you were able to change that narrative pretty quickly. But when you watch the film from 2019, did you honestly see a lot of untapped potential? Or did you see a group that you said to yourself, ‘OK, I have a lot of work to do over here?’

RR: “Both. The guy who I came up under, Andre Patterson, he got this from Denny Green. In the Vikings’ buildings, there are so many Denny Green-isms that have lasted over time. And one of the things is: when we did the job analysis, and we started diving into the film, [players] start telling me about what they can’t do. Let's focus on what they can do and how they can use those talents to get better. Andre Patterson would watch [a player’s] skill set and say, ‘Can I coach that? Can I help him improve?’ We take pride in our technique, no matter what you are: if you’re average, we want you to be good. If you're good, we want you to be great. If you're great, we want to make you the best. That's what we believe technique can do for you.

“I consider before watching film; they're gonna look better than this. Start looking for the good qualities. That's all Coach Green, stop telling me what you can't do and try to tell me what you can do and how that's going to help us. That's how I looked at it. I certainly said, ‘We got our work cut out for us.’ [ASU Defensive Analyst] Marcus [Lewis] was a great help to me. We were both coming from the NFL. It was great to bounce ideas off of him; he helped me see things that maybe I didn't see have another set of eyes on. We did a good job of not worrying about the past and trying to focus on what [the players] were good at and try to bring it out of them.

“Obviously, I didn't like what I saw often. A lot of times, I was frustrated how many times they were down the middle; or how many times they lacked awareness or technique. Those are the things that upset the coach when you see them… But the thing I did like to see is how quick the feet were and how natural they were as pass rushers. When they did things the way I wanted them to, I’d ask, ‘Look, how did it feel?’ Individually, I saw something in all those dudes. And that's how we went about our business.”

DD: As a first-year coach in charge of a unit that wasn't really entering 2020 with a lot of swagger from the previous year, did you have any apprehensions at that shortened spring practice?

RR: “When you think about it, yes. But that’s also one of the lessons that we've tried to emphasize with our players in the defensive line room, that, regardless of how true excuses are, the world will judge you off of your production. Don't tell me about the labor; show me the baby. That's how it is all the way across the world; I try to teach my guys that as a life lesson. For me, as a coach, I did not have that mentality. I didn't want to express or dwell on the frustration of not being able to get things done. Even because of COVID and the restrictions on the university, there were some sleds that are critical to what we do in our training, and I couldn't get it until the season. There's a lot of things like that where I had to work with different types of things.

“You have to be an example to your players, and I thought Herm was a great example of composure. The same thing with Marvin and AP; nobody sat there shaking like a leaf on a tree. I did not want to dwell on that even though it was present and ever present. We always teach about no matter how hard it rains or narrow circumstances, we're in charge of our production; that's how the world is going to judge us. That's how we're gonna be successful or not successful. Let’s make sure that we maximize the time we do have. Those thoughts are present, but I can never even acknowledge them because that’s just gonna hold us back. It would make me a hypocrite. I can't do it.”

DD: What allowed (ASU sophomore) Michael Matus to change everyone’s perception of him almost overnight? He turned into one of the best defensive linemen to come out of this 2020 group.

RR: “I've said it so much about the best players that I've been able to coach at the highest level: talent is one thing; character is another. The mix of character and intelligence is such a great combination and always makes everything about that person better. That’s what Mike has.

“It’s pretty cool– I had no idea. Like with all my players, I didn't listen to what anybody told me about those guys in terms of how I was going to judge them. I let those guys write their own story. From day one, Mike had a great attitude. He's always having fun, gives you everything he’s got. When you ask him to do something, he tries to do it to the letter of the law. He doesn't let the outside noise get into his head. I'm proud of him because of the improvement in intelligence; he has high character, high energy; and understands the game of football, so it's easy to make adjustments with him. That's always good for a player, and he tries to put it into work.

“The bottom line is that guy is more talented than I think people realize. He’s not the tallest guy. Again, I've always emphasized height is not what I'm looking for here. Length is what I'm looking for. He does have long arms, and that helps him, but he's a football player. Matus is not afraid of contact; he understands football and how to use his hands to slip things. The best part is when he goes out to the field; there's no slow down. He plays fast. There's no drop off in the way he plays versus the way he practices. It's all the same tempo. That's what makes him successful. But the number one thing about Mike–aside from his intelligence–is his character. People need to quit sleeping on his couch; he’s a pretty athletic guy… I want his nickname to be Michael ‘I told you so’ Matus, because he’s my ‘I told you so’ guy.”

DD: What is your assessment of (ASU junior) Tyler Johnson, someone who had a breakout season in a shortened year. What did you see from Tyler that really allowed him to be as successful as he was?

RR: “The biggest thing with Tyler was putting a very talented, gifted guy in a position to make plays and allow him to do what he does best. I hope the fans can understand what Tyler went through and the concessions he had to make to be successful in this game. He had to get out of his comfort zone. That’s not easy for anybody. I saw a big jump in the way he addresses the game and the way he addresses himself. For Tyler to be where he needs to be at, that's got to continue.

“Sometimes, when you have potential, you're so focused on pushing towards that mountaintop, you forget how much ground you’ve covered. And he really did a good job this year, especially at the end there. He got a little banged up at that Oregon State game. And I appreciated what it meant to him. It just wasn't worth the guy getting hurt any further, so we kept him out, and I told him how proud I was of the jump that he made.

“But him on game days, especially that Arizona game and the Oregon State game, the type of teammate that he had become the type of person and how much it meant to him…he was fun to be around. That’s what I want for Tyler; I want him to eliminate the clutter. There are too many people telling him this and that and having expectations for him to fail. I just want him to be the best version of himself. I'm very proud that those things paid off for him; he's continued to make progress and push himself. Again, you have to humble yourself a little bit to change. And he did that without a doubt; I didn't have to beg him to do it. He’s gonna continue to get better, I'm proud of what he did.”

DD: (ASU junior) Jermayne Lole had certainly shown more than few flashes in his first two years before you coached him here, and coming into 2020 was considered the best lineman on the team. Did he prove those accolades with his production this past season?

RR: “I thought he was outstanding. He did some stuff that really made a difference in our defense. Inside, especially in the run game, you're asked to do some stuff that you don't get credit for. And he did it; he did it willingly. He created for those around him, and I just loved coaching him. I thought he really took a step as a football player. I already could tell he was quick and could do the quick stuff, but I didn't know that he could anchor and do what he did because he never showed it.

“I'm really excited for him. And I'll give you an example: I got a friend who's a front office guy in the NFL, and I asked him about my guys. He didn’t mention Jermayne–and you can tell I'm excited about him–all of a sudden, I got a call about three weeks ago, ‘Is he coming out? We watched the film. He's a good player. I didn't know he could anchor like that [he said].’ Jermayne helped himself so much. It's gonna help him in the future because if you can put a whole season like that and finish a couple of his rushes... He had two sacks in the grass that he didn't get credit for because the fumble rolled forward, and then he had a couple of other opportunities where he could have gotten a sack that we got to clean up, so he gets them. Numbers don't reflect what he did for us. Jermayne humbled himself, saying, ‘Coach, I'll do what you ask me to do. I'll do the tough stuff,’ and I'm so glad it's paid off for him because he is the unquestioned leader in our room and the guy who has a bright future in what we're doing.”

DD: And let's talk about the quiet man of the group– (junior) DJ Davidson. What did you see in terms of his development?

RR: “The problem sometimes with big guys is, they've always been told in their families, ‘Oh, no, be nice, be nice. Don't push your brother.’ With DJ, sometimes you get an opportunity to say, ‘Push your brother, go knock them around and be the bully a little bit.’ DJ is such an intelligent kid, such a wonderful person; he really is a gentle giant. But that big dude can move his feet. And that's the key. The best I've been around are strong with big brute strength, but this guy's got great feet. He’s capable of doing more than just sitting there anchoring.

“The game of football, it's expanding. The guys who can anchor, handle their feet and slow down the line are now necessary. He’s got so much more to him. But he took a job just being a physical football player. Sometimes I don't understand why they do that to the guys who can be powerful. Even the powerful ones, they all teach them to be finesse. I teach my speed guys to be powerful… With DJ, he's a difference-maker. Sometimes, he did some really good stuff and made a huge difference for us. So we’re gonna keep pressing on because I think that he can be an NFL guy if he continues to ascend.”

DD: (ASU freshman) Stephon Wright unfortunately had an injury that greatly limited his playing time in 2020; nonetheless, what did you see from him during that time?

RR: “Steph has a lot of abilities. His only problem is old habits that those are hard to break, especially for young guys. He's still maturing as a player and as a person. He had made such good strides and made a great play on the play when he got injured. It ended up looking like a bad play, but he had done such a good job making progress. He’s a little bit behind the 8-Ball because of all the old habits that he had, and that's not uncommon. The older he gets, hopefully, we just keep him healthy and keep growing. But the more he matures, the better it will be. I'm excited about his future because he can be both powerful and quick.”

DD: You mention injuries, and obviously (ASU sophomore) Stanley Lambert had a long road to recovering from such a severe knee injury. He’s still a pretty young player, though, so what kind of potential do you see for his future?

RR: “When it comes to ability and athletic abilities, it's not about potential; he's already there. He's already that type of athlete who can bend and move. But Stanley was definitely not familiar with the game, like a lot of us are, and so he’s still learning the game of football. There's a lot of things that you would think would be natural that aren’t. Obviously, you never played defensive line either. But I'll say the improvement that he's made from day one to now is through the roof. You can't even put a measuring stick on that.

“But secondly, Stanley has done a good job maturing as a person. I hope he keeps it up because I always say we need to get more out of him. We can get more out of him. He's just got to commit himself to the game fully. He's had pockets where he does an unbelievable job, and then there are pockets where he can drift away... if he only stays engaged and motivated, he can be a heck of a player. I love Stanley; he's a great kid. He's a good dude, and I love being around him, and I'm really happy to see him continue to progress. He needs to keep putting his foot on the gas when it comes to that.”

DD: What can you tell us about (ASU junior) TJ Pesefea and his progress?

RR: “I love that kid. I feel badly because I think I put too much on him as a coach. I think I needed to simplify some things. We were tweaking his stance, alignment and teaching him how to play multiple positions, but he did everything we asked him to do. TJ’s another guy with old habits, still maturing as a man; but when he gets those things in order, he’s a high character kid with a good ability to get stronger in his lower body. As he does those things, I think this guy can be a big time player for us. I trust him and love him, but I think good is the enemy of great. That kid can do great things for us; he didn’t quite hit that this year because of all the things I put on his plate. But– his improvement has been dramatic. We gotta keep him focused on it, make sure there’s enough on his plate to eat and keep pushing him to be a better man every single day.”

DD: Omarr Norman-Lott was sidelined for quite a while. But from the little that you could see from him on the practice field as a true freshman, what do you think about his abilities?

RR: “Omarr is an outstanding talent. He’s not the longest or biggest guy, but he’s super explosive, balanced, and has a great skill set to play. I think he's gonna be an issue inside if he continues to develop. We had a couple of bumps in the road this year with injuries and some other things that happened. Omarr is somebody who I’ve seen mature recently, and start to get some things in order that's really good. The more growth that we get as a human with Omarr, the better he's going to be. I think Omarr is a passionate kid who believes in the theory. He cares a lot about what he's doing. I just want him to be focused and happy on being here and doing a great job. Since he came back from Christmas break, I feel great about where he's at in his life and what he wants to accomplish because when he’s all committed, he can be a special player.”

DD: How would you assess his fellow true freshman Joe Moore?

RR: “Joe's a cool cat, man. He's just a great dude. It's hard to tell if he's up or down because every single day, he is cool. The playbook and the technique were just too much for him at the beginning. And as a coach, I'll always take responsibility for that. But he started to figure some things out and started to play fast. There are some old habits; he adjusted because he’s a natural pass rusher. Good speed, the guy is tough. He's tough, he ain’t no pushover. He’s got the things in place to be really good at this level.

“Like everybody, he's got to keep growing up and keep developing. I'm really happy with Joe. I love talking with the dude; he's just always having a good day and doesn't let things get under his skin. Last year was tough for him because there were a lot of things on his plate, and he was never asked to do a lot of stuff. When you get to this level, you got to deal with more than that, and when you get to the ultimate level, you definitely got to do more than that. When he gets it, we're gonna have something on our hands, so I'm happy with him.”

DD: What is your evaluation of (ASU junior) Corey Stephens?

RR: “Corey Stephens is the highest character that you can be around. Corey is a guy who was really successful as a high school player, and nobody loves Sun Devil football and his teammates more than Corey. He’s big time at the gym and makes the whole room better. Such a mature, great character. He's just a great guy, and we’re better off for having him. He’s improved; when DJ went down in the UCLA game for a second, everyone looked at me in a panic. But I knew we had prepared our guys; that’s why we do what we do: we coach them all. I looked back at my guys and said, ‘TJ, you’re the nose, and Corey, you’re on deck.’ I didn’t blink an eye. That went a long way, and my players expressed that to me later that my trust in my players goes a long way. Corey is a great example of that; anything you tell him or teach him, he cares a lot. I’m really high on Corey.”

DD: I believe it was the preseason when we talked about (ASU redshirt freshman) Anthonie Cooper, and you said that you saw some productive signs from him, how do you evaluate his 2020?”

RR: “Coop did everything right– except he didn't quite finish plays. There were a couple of times where if he were a better finisher, we'd have better sack numbers. But the jump he made from spring to fall was outstanding, and I thought he did a lot of good things. The Oregon State game was his best game. Coop sneakily keeps getting better. He's got an extraordinary ability to bend at that top level; he can bend as well as almost anybody I’ve ever had.

“He’s got the same problem as a lot of kids; they need to mature a bit so they can stay focused and hone in on the things that made them successful. Coop’s got a natural pass rush ability, and he showed that if I can make him a more consistent football player, then I’ll be happy. We work hard to be fully rounded, defensive players, and there are a couple more things Coop could hone in on; he’s one of the guys where I keep looking at the mountaintop because I know what he can be. He’s another cool cat–a funny cat–with a great sense of humor. He’s a funny guy to be around, but there are a couple of times [laughs] where I make sure that the joking stops, you dial it in and go to work. I love Coop. I think he’s got a bright future; he likes his own ticket. He’s got to push himself, but I’m really proud of how far he’s come.”

DD: During his ASU career (senior), Shannon Forman was tossed back and forth between interior lineman and defensive end? What are your thoughts about his play last season? Where do you see him on the field for this upcoming season?

RR: “I'm super proud of that dude. I think he is a quiet leader. Guys love him so much because he's the example of what it is to be a Sun Devil. He is one of the most caring people that I know, one of the most selfless people that I know; he's outstanding. I put him in a position (defensive end) where he probably wasn't natural, and it wasn't the best for him. But he just took it and ran with it. He'll spend a little bit more time inside–but that dude is the ultimate team player; he will be able to help us on both sides. I thought he showed us a lot of grit in a lot of tough positions, and that’s the best type of character. I love Shannon; for a big guy, he moves really well. We'll bring him inside a little bit more probably because he can give those guards problems. We're utilizing him a little bit better, but he makes us better. He is one of the heartbeats of that room.”

DD: If (strength coach) Joe Connolly and the nutrition department at ASU would have a poster child of rapid development, I think it'd be (redshirt freshman) Amiri Johnson, putting on some 70 pounds in the offseason. I know he’s another guy that was sidelined due to injury, but in limited practice reps, what did you see from Amiri last year?

RR: “Amiri had a rough one. Joe does an unbelievable job with those guys; the way he helps them reshape their bodies is unreal. But the problem is when COVID came, we didn’t have our hands on them for too long. Amiri probably put on a little too much weight up top, and that mixed with an injury, never let him see his potential.

“I will say this: based on the spring last year, there was no doubt in my mind, he was going to be a contributor. There's no doubt in my mind; he will contribute here and be an outstanding player for us. I couldn't find a better person to coach. I think he is awesome. I’m teaching him that nice guys don't finish last, but there are no nice guys down there fighting. In the trenches, you gotta go in there and be super aggressive. I'm excited for him to get dialed in and have a whole year under his belt of knowing this scheme and technique. I want to see when he's able to come back. I'm excited to get him going again because I think he’s smart, long, and he's tough. He's a good kid, but I need him to start letting the kid die so the man can live and the man can thrive. I'm all in, the coaching staff here is all in, and the kids are all in, so I'm excited about the future. I want him to quit listening to outside noise, though I don't think anybody outside of our building knows how much he should weigh or what he should play, or what expectations are there for him. That's not healthy for him. What’s healthy for him is just getting the most out of Amiri every single day. That's going to be good enough.”

DD: Let’s talk about the new additions on the defensive line. What attracted you about LSU transfer Travez Moore and made you want to bring him on board?”

RR: “There are two things. First of all, I obviously saw his skill set. He’s extremely fast, the number one player out of junior college when he went to LSU. And, when I finally got the chance to talk to him, I could tell he’s a guy who felt like he hadn’t reached his potential and was hungry for that. When guys are like that, you have to humble yourself a little bit and submit to coaching. He was willing to do that, and those are the best guys that I work with.

“I have a great track record with LSU guys who feel like they haven't gotten the most out of themselves. I’m two-for-two, so I gotta be three-for-three. I like his attitude and what he's trying to accomplish by coming here. Obviously, the timing didn't hurt, when I saw the talent and the length of his arms, the way he can bend, those are all things that I'd love to work with. The jury will always be out on him; he's got to make a commitment. He's been here a couple of weeks; he’s been working out and looks great. When we get out there– is he willing to commit fully to what I'm teaching and what we're teaching? If he is, I think we're gonna get some good stuff out of him. He's been a good person who’s happy to be here. I'm excited to see where he can go.”

DD: You had to battle some notable teams such as Penn State, Texas, and Tennessee to keep Gharin Stansbury committed and eventually signed. That probably says everything about what kind of player he can be here…

RR: [laughing] “When Gharin gets here, there's gonna be a few people that go, ‘Oh, that's what Coach Rob was talking about!’ Gharin is long, and he’s got a babyface; he's the nicest person. But when he decides to get nasty, It's impressive. It's kind of funny, where I projected him based on what I saw from his junior [year of high school] film. The only problem with Gharin is, he's such a good kid and works so hard; he took that step earlier. I would’ve wanted him to take that step when he got here. I was gonna sneak him through, get him here, develop him and make him look like that. Well, the kid did in the summertime, and it was hard to get my hands on him.

“His senior film was awesome. He looked like a force, like a four-star or five-star guy; he was booking people. That's where all these colleges all of a sudden jumped in. But to his credit, he appreciated that we saw something in him when very few other people did. It meant something to him… that's another example of what I'm talking about with the mix of talent and character. And super long arms [laughs]. But this kid is the best type of person, and I'm glad because I feel like I've given the fans in this organization a great gift, just as a kid. He's a great person, and I have high expectations of him as a player because he's gonna put in the work, and the kid will sacrifice. It means a lot to him. You guys will be very, very excited about the type of person we're bringing in.”

DD: Especially when it comes to defensive linemen, there are far fewer question marks about the maturity of a player coming from the transfer portal compared to a high school player. Do you see yourself in this class, and in classes moving forward, perhaps targeting transfers even more?

RR: “I hope that as a program, we're not dependent on that. We're going to see that as we go along. There are recruiters and coaches, and there are a few that do them at a high level. I'm trying to develop the players that we get here and make them great. I'm not looking at needing somebody else to do that for me and getting them in here to make me a good coach or make us a good program. I want that to be the culture: that by getting better, we have good players, and the players get better.

“But just like you do at the NFL level, you're always wanting to influx talent and competition. I'd be a fool to see and say, ‘Oh, I don't want talented players.’ That's ridiculous. I want all the talented players. If I can get an impact guy right now, I don't care how much I love my guys. That's the standard in our room. That's always going to be the case; if you can get a guy that makes a difference, you get him. If you got a guy who’s going to change the program, get him. That’s always going to factor in; I think where it hurts is that there's always high school players who can fall into the cracks late, who have so much potential, and they've somehow fallen through the cracks. They're available, there are schools that would take chances on those guys, and they end up being tremendous players. There will be fewer of those guys because you need to have available scholarships to get the transfers. [The new transfer portal rules are] gonna change the landscape forever. I think we're always going to be participants in that, but where we’re always going to hang our hat is recruiting, getting the best possible prospects, and developing them.”

DD: I know that the change from Antonio Pierce and Marvin Lewis as co-defensive coordinators to AP being the sole defensive coordinator is still relatively fresh. And you haven't had even one spring practice yet. Do you think we will witness changes in the defense?”

RR: “We're gonna have to change. Anytime somebody like Marv walks out of the room in that capacity, there's going to be change. The structure is going to be the same, but I think the important thing is that we believe in both those guys, and we're grateful for Marvin. The knowledge that he was able to give us last year, just the way he went about his business, is pretty cool.

“Conversely, it's exciting for Antonio to get to put his stamp on it. You never want players or coaches to try to be like their predecessor. You want them to be themselves and take those lessons and carry on. So I'm excited. You're always gonna feel that loss when you got somebody like Marvin, isn’t the guy calling the shots. But then you're excited and grateful that you have somebody like Antonio is gonna step in–and watch–he's gonna be a Rockstar. He's gonna tear it up. Everybody's gonna know who he is. Antonio is that type of coach, so I'm just the fortunate guy who gets to be a part of both.”

DD: Before you know it, spring practice will kick off. What do you want your group to achieve at the end of those 15 sessions?

RR: “We're gonna build it from the ground up all over again. I want us to progress much faster than we did last spring because it was all new to everybody. If we're doing this the right way, we're gonna get guys like Travez; we're gonna get him going. He's gonna learn this thing faster because he's going to have an environment around him. I want us to take another step, to establish the foundation the right way. By the end of spring [I want us] to be further along than we were last year, and for guys to know this thing so well, they can teach it. If we get there, I'll be happy–well, I won't be happy–but I'm still going to keep pressing on. We're gonna keep pushing this thing and making it better and better.”

(Zach Keenan contributed to this article)

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