It’s no secret that on the list of concerns fans had of this 2020 ASU team, the defensive line play was a consensus Top-3 item. The play of this group in 2019 with no immediate impact player additions did anything but lower the apprehension level. Nonetheless, even in two losses this year, the performance of the Sun Devils’ front four has been quite impressive.
We caught up with ASU’s defensive line coach Robert Rodriguez to get share his view of this unit, as well as preview the Territorial Cup game from his group’s perspective.
DevilsDigest: A loss is a loss, and sometimes it's hard to take any positives from such a contest with that outcome. But in both the USC and UCLA games, I truly thought the defensive line played well under the circumstances and showed some promising signs. What is your assessment of your group after two games?
Robert Rodriguez: “Well, the word that I would use to describe is encouraging. Obviously, we're still disappointed from the loss, and that doesn't go away. I think I learned from (Minnesota Vikings’ co-defensive coordinator and defensive line coach) Andre Patterson, you can't get too high after a win and forget about correcting things. You can't get too low after a loss and forget about correcting the things that you think you do well.
“We have to build off of the things that we do well so we can have a good performances. The most disappointing thing is that we had two opportunities to put our stamp on it and change the game as a D-Line and win the game. We haven't been able to do that, and I think that's the next step for us is to take it over in those two-minute situations that we have such an effective pass rush that you cannot go down the field and making it almost impossible. The good ones (defensive lines) do that, and so we need to still keep pushing and keep grinding.
“Sometimes you can forget how far we've come. The other night watching the (UCLA) film, it really hit me just how much these guys have evolved since I got the job here, and I'm so proud that they just continued to fight. We had another good day at practice, and they're doing things intelligently with good technique; the only thing is we haven't grown consistently yet. When we do that, we're really going to help our team win. But I'm just encouraged by what these guys are going to continue to do because they have a great work ethic. I'm just proud of those guys, and I'm very grateful that I get to coach them.”
DevilsDigest: Is there one aspect in preseason camp that you generally felt good about and has genuinely come to fruition in these two games?
Robert Rodriguez: “To me, all across the board, they showed great character. I asked them to take a step back, let go of all the bad habits they had their entire life, and just really raise their hand up and say, ‘Coach, coach me. You tell me the best way to do it, and we will do it.”
“So that’s the The first thing, and the second thing that really impressed me in the last two games is we got a couple of things that…I’ll be honest some D-Lines in the NFL don't do. We really ask our guys to be intelligent and make great decisions. It's not just about being a meathead going out there and just throwing your body around. We play with technique. There are some adjustments that we've been able to make in the D-Line that are intelligent, and I'm very, really proud of that. Most people paint their D-Line as dumb, and so they treat them like they are dumb. We don’t. We treat them like players that have to make intelligent decisions, and they've done that. That's big too. I told them that when I came here, my goal wasn’t to tell them what to do. My goal is to empower them so they to feel that they run onto the field they can make great decisions. To see them do that, that’s really a lot of fun. I'm happy for them because I want those guys to continue to get better."
DevilsDigest: I wanted to talk specifically about some of the linemen, and let's start with Tyler Johnson, who earned a very deserving Defensive Lineman of the Week honor in the Pac-12. I don’t know if this was a breakout game for him because he had a lot of big play in his first two years here in Tempe. But I have never seen him as dominant as he was against UCLA. How do you evaluate his performance last Saturday and his progression from preseason camp until now?
Robert Rodriguez: “Tyler has come a long way. He’s always been talented, but that’s not exactly what production comes from. When I first coached him, you could see his ability, and Tyler does have a feel for the game, and he just finds the football. You need those players that are just magnets for the football. We're all really proud of Tyler. He is starting to buy into technique and discipline, and those are the two things I think in the end we're just a bit lacking and that those are the things he really improved on, and it showed up the other day (versus UCLA). He still made some mistakes, but he made them fast and with the right intention. He did a lot of great things, and from preseason camp to now, his body is in a little better shape even than what it was at USC.
“His ability to understand what we're asking him to do is better, and he’s still nowhere close to where he can be because he's not a master of his technique. If he was, I think he'd be even further along than he is now. But you can't take away instincts, and he has those things. You can't take away a great ability, and he's not afraid to be physical. So, I'm proud that he's bought in because Tyler is a very smart guy. He's intelligent, but he's also a little headstrong. He always wants to know exactly why. Now, I'm always willing to tell you exactly why friends, but you may not like the answer. Like you said, Tyler has already made a lot of plays in his career, and that’s hard to let that go because what he did before made him successful. But for him to say, ‘okay, coach, I'm going to do it your way and to the best of my ability, that’s a big step for Tyler, and then I think it has paid off so far. He's got to keep plugging away because as quickly as it went well, it can go bad if you aren’t. He’s doing some things with technique that he hasn’t done before, and I’m excited to see him grow out of that.
DevilsDigest: When the first depth chart of the season came out, and Michael Matus was listed as the starting defensive end, I know many fans who were raising a high eyebrow. But I believe he answered those questions during the USC game and played well against UCLA, too, and now no one is asking anymore, ‘why is Michael Matus starting?’
Robert Rodriguez: “Well, Hod, hope you tell the fans, ‘do you trust me now? Do I know what I’m doing?’ From the first time I coached, not only was he willing to do everything that we asked him, he was excited and wanted to learn everything I was teaching. You could see his eyes light up when I talked about pro bowlers of what NFL teams did. So that’s the type of energy that he brings to everything that he does, and it’s really exciting. When I first coached him in practice, I wasn't blown away, but I wasn’t disappointed with what I saw. He doesn't blow you away with his athleticism, but he has more athleticism than you think. I told him and all the linemen that this will be open competition until the first game. Nobody ever took it (starting position) from him. That’s the testament to our rule that we will let the film speak. He doesn’t do everything right; it isn’t always pretty, but he fights through those things. I told him that he has to be my (former NFL lineman) Bryan Robinson, who has a long career, and he was so smart and was such a tough competitor.
“Here’s the thing about Mike when he goes out, and the lights turn on, he's not intimidated. His tempo does not slow down. He makes quick decisions; he plays fast. He's committed to what we're teaching him, we give him the keys, and he attacks them. So, he's not second-guessing what I asked him to do. I think that guy's got leadership qualities, and I'm really happy for him because I don't know that he ever knew that people doubted him like that. But that it's fun to prove people wrong. I've done that in my life that I think it's fun to see those guys prove people wrong. I'm glad that people see what I see, and I remember when that depth chart came out. I got a lot of questions. I said, ‘I don't know many things in this world, but I do know the way it should look, and I know the best people for the position. I've been trained by the best, and I know what it looks like. I really don't care what you look like wearing a uniform. I do care what’s beating in your chest.”
DevilsDigest: Back in the spring, you talked about how excited you were about Jermayne Lole moving to 3-technique (defensive tackle) because that was the best position for him. Even though he played just two games this year in that role, it seems as if this position, as you mentioned, really fits him like a glove…
Robert Rodriguez: “Did I say that about Jermayne? I got that one right, too, Hod (laughs). You said it; it’s on the film. Him lining up against guards is a mismatch, and he has the natural ability to play the position. The best thing I've been proud about Jermayne is his ability to rush the passer. He's improved the way he uses his hands, his angles. But what I’m really proud of Jermayne is his buy-in. We ask those guys to play old-school technique football. And so, when they’re playing on certain combinations inside those tackles, it’s very difficult for those guys who are a little bit undersized who are not really good with their technique.
"It's funny because we've asked some defenses to be kind of Reckless and just go up the field like they did last year. There are some instances where we let them do that, and on one play, he played it the way I asked him to play it, and he was in a good position, and then on another one where he got reckless, he just got rolled over because he didn't play with good leveraging technique and he came back, and he said ‘coach I'm never doing that again.’ He's done stuff in the run game that I'm going to put on my teach tape. I'm so proud of him. He's bought-in, and he can see what I was talking about. His skill set is a matchup issue, and the best part is that he is strong enough and technique sound enough to play physical in the run game as well. And so now he can be a three-down guy for me as opposed to being, coming in just on third down. I know what it looks like, and I know the skill set, and I know this is the right position for him. Not many guys inside can block him, and it shows. He’s done a great job.”
Devils Digest: Can’t forget about the lunch pail nose tackle, DJ Davidson. What do you think about his play in these two games?
Robert Rodriguez: “I said it before he's another guy who’s has a lot of power but also a lot of skill set, which is something that I need to have him to understand and believe in because of all the running they did before and all the movement, it negated what makes him great, and that's having your hands on your man and being powerful manipulating bodies. I just knew that with our technique that we were teaching, he would be better. DJ has a gift, and he has great speed and great feet for a big man. It's really impressive. So the thing I had to get him to do is start to using that power as a difference-maker, and I think he's done that. He’s such an intelligent kid who comes to the sideline, communicates with me, we fixed his angle (blocking the center) and how he should react to it, and then I'm telling you he went out and put some stuff on film that was just awesome.
“That's because DJ is a high character dude, and I know he’s talented. But I just I know that our technique brings the best out of a guy, and I'm very excited to see that vision come to light and have everybody see what I was hoping for and planning for. I think he and TJ Pesefea still have their best football in front of them, so we can be really good at that position for a long time.”
DevilsDigest: Who are some of the other reserves and/or younger players that we don't see that often have shown some promising signs?
Robert Rodriguez: “Stephon Wright had a great week of practice (before the UCLA game) and reads that he had problems with before, he played them well in that game, and that was very encouraging. He’s on the upswing. How about Shannon Forman? He plays the run very well. He put a tackle on the ground and helped DJ get that sack. If I got to have 14 Shannon’s in that room, I would do it. He's played well for us.
“(freshman) Joe Moore is doing well and has had an uptick (in performance) for the last couple of weeks and looked good since we came back from COVID (hiatus). I think it was a little overwhelming for him in the beginning with the assignments because he’s not out there running and chasing the quarterback. He’s been steady. He’s a quiet kid that has a great disposition. He’s got so much better as a pass rusher, and I just want him to keep plugging away.”
DevilsDigest: I know many of the coaches on the staff, including yourself, are not throwing a pity party in the office concerning how much this pandemic has disrupted your entire season. It’s probably easier said than done to really keep your head up and roll with the punches because the whole country is doing that right now. Having said that, how would you assess the mental aspect of this team right now. In these two games, we see a team that is fighting and not getting its doors blown off every Saturday…
Rebert Rodriguez: “I've already told coach Herm that I really do think there are some really good people on this team that know each other and care about each other. The way they have handled this has been really impressive. I’d be a fool not to say how difficult these times are because this is unknown, and it's scary, and I don't care how old you are. You can act like ‘I'm a man’ and everything, but this time is difficult because we're all having to adjust constantly, and this pandemic is a serious issue.
“We're trying to do something that we love and enjoy during a very difficult time. These kids have gone through a lot, and to watch them come out and everything you’re asking them to do, they respond. That's what hurts me the most about us not getting wins; the kids deserve it. The kids deserve it. The problem is you got to go out on Saturdays and earn it. We just came up a little bit short in certain situations, but in terms of kids deserving to be successful - these are the kids.
“I've been proud of these guys. I'm happy, I'm here. I'm very proud to have the guys that I have. These aren't somebody else's players, these are my players, and after going through this, I believe it more than ever. These are good kids that have been through a lot. But it just changes the outcome of the games because everyone has been through something. It's difficult for everybody, and it's challenging for everybody. But I just have a firm belief that on the other side of this…iron sharpens iron, and I think we are going to be stronger because of this. I think the guys that come through on the other side of the fire are going to be tough and even tougher, so I acknowledge how tough it is and how difficult it is. I just feel like these kids have done a great job fighting through it. This has taught them a lot about themselves and a lot about each other because they fought through this. That's the challenge right now is to keep them focused on that and just know that there's going to be a reward on the other side. They are going to better men and better teammates.”
DevilsDigest: Looking at the upcoming Arizona game, put aside the bizarre stuff that sometimes happens during a rivalry game, and just looking at the X's and O's, even though it’s been a struggle of a season for them too. It’s an offense that runs the ball very well. What do you think of the challenges that await the defensive linemen in specific on Friday night?
Robert Rodriguez: “Yeah, we got a lot of challenges. This offensive line works well as a unit. Their running back is outstanding, and I think both quarterbacks present a lot of challenges. They're going to spread the ball from sideline to sideline. So there are all kinds of things that are going to be thrown our way that we've got to be disciplined at. But a lot like last Saturday, if our eyes are down and we play great technique, that's our only chance to be successful.
“I don't get caught up in records because I think that fool’s gold. When I was in the NFL, there were different times when we beat some teams we shouldn’t of, and sometimes we lost to teams that we shouldn’t have lost to. It all adds up to remembering that they got kids on scholarship, and they got kids and a lot of pride, and this rivalry means something. I remember this rivalry growing, so I know how important it is to these guys. So we are not going to disrespect our opponent because that’s bush. I think you'd be foolish of them to disrespect us because of our record. So why would you do that to them? They played some teams close; they played some good football. It just hasn't worked out for them neither. So that's certainly not what we're doing. We have a team that is hungry to win, and we’re going to do whatever it takes.
“I think we have a team that poses a lot of challenges, both schematically and athletically. But also, there's a lot of pride over there, and we know it, and also we have to honor it to be ready for it. We have to be willing to fight for four quarters because anytime a game is played, it's a dog fight, so we got to be ready to go.”
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