As frustrating as it was to play just a four-game season last year, it also proved to be an element that has the Sun Devils returning a plethora of proven talent ahead of the 2021 season. According to its defensive coordinator, Antonio Pierce, this upcoming season has been targeted for a while as the proverbial getting over the hump season for ASU.

Our extensive conversation discusses those expectations, the program’s culture that is conducive to success, coaches’ and players’ evaluation and additions, and what does the defense needs to do to be truly as dominant with all of its starters returning.

DevilsDigest: As we know, there's no such thing as an offseason. ASU fans always ask me what are some of the activities that occupy the staff these days? Is it geared heavily towards recruiting, still reviewing the 2020 season, or putting in a lot of time getting ready for spring practice?

Antonio Pierce: “It’s really all the above and then some more. We got back from winter break a couple of weeks ago, and guys got back in offices, and right away we got shakin’ n bakin’ with our staff trying to keep continuity and trying to keep guys together. We had Marvin Lewis interviewed for the head coaching jobs in the NFL; we got other coaches being trying to be poached by other programs. We're trying to put a bow on our 2021 recruiting class.

“But at the same time, as you said, recruiting is always 24/7/365. But more importantly, getting ready for spring ball and just getting our guys back and keeping everybody healthy.”

DevilsDigest: When you talk about the poaching of the coaching staff, and I know it's a crazy situation to deal with as often as you do, but is there something to be said regarding the fact that the coaches here in Tempe are so highly regarded that everybody in anybody wants a piece of your staff?

AP: “I would say so, and it doesn't matter how old you are, right? 25 years old, like a Chris Hawkins or Adam Breneman, or you can be Marvin Lewis and be courted by NFL teams that go through that process. It is very unique, and I think we've put together a pretty good staff of guys who've done a good job of recruiting, and obviously, people who we feel do a good job in coaching, in a classroom, and on the grass.

“So I think that's a compliment to what Ray Anderson, Dr. Crow, and Herm Edwards and the vision that they put together. With the pro model within a pro model, it’s going to be growth opportunities for not only our players but our coaches.”

DevilsDigest: I have to address the elephant in the room about your candidacy for the head coaching job at the University of Arizona. How close did that come to being reality and having you leaving for Tucson?

AP: “Whenever you have an opportunity to interview for a head coaching job, especially as a minority, you got to take that opportunity. As far as coach (Herm) Edwards and (Deputy Athletics Director ) Jean Boyd and Ray Anderson about it. And I felt that it was in my best interest for my process and my learning curve to go through that process. And I learned a lot I learned a lot about myself, I learned a lot about things I like, that I don't like, things I would do again, and what I wouldn't do.

“But for me, I always tell people I don't like moving. My career is not that of somebody that's up and out after one year, two years; I've now been here three years going into year four, that's been pretty consistent in my track record, I don't like moving. I'm comfortable here; I’ve built a great foundation with the players who we brought in. What we have done defensively and as a team, you feel that you’re close. You don't want to put expectations on the season, but we have worked for three years for this fourth season to be something special.”

DevilsDigest: So you don't make the move, and later you’re elevated to sole defensive coordinator. You talk about building something special for 2021, so was this personnel move really about that continuity you mentioned, or as defensive coordinator, will we now might see some wrinkles compared to 2020?

AP: “In 2020, we did a lot of things well, especially from adapting from a 3-3-5 to a four-down look, to playing in a more traditional style one gap-defense, two high safeties. As always, you'd like to put your own little sprinkle on something. But if there's not a lot of things broke, just let it be, don't try to do too much. Obviously, there are always ways to adapt and grow; we're going through that this offseason, as coaches are studying and doing our projects and reports with other programs, not only in college but the NFL, to see how we can get better. They're always studying, always learning. So, obviously, I think what we've done well, we will continue to do well. What we need to fix, we’ll make some changes.”

DevilsDigest: There's this insane level of talent coming back on this ASU defense, which probably excites you even more being the sole defensive coordinator working with this caliber of players. You must be licking your chops for this 2021 season…

AP: “Yeah, don’t blow it! Everyone did a great job of setting this up. And I think it's a credit to our players. You see a lot of guys around the country opting out transferring, declaring for the draft either, rightfully so or not. Our guys chose to stay. Every single starter on defense is coming back. We didn’t lose anybody. No coaching change; we kept our staff together. So not only am I excited about our players, but I'm excited about our staff, our entire unit, that there's so much continuity and a feel for one another that all we can do is grow. All we can do is keep watering the plant, watering the yard, and watch this bad boy grow and blossom into something very beautiful.”

DevilsDigest: As you said, there are a lot of good reasons for a lot of players to not to seek greener pastures and not to go into the transfer portal. But would it be fair to say that having the four-game season, as painful as it was, and as frustrating as it was, ultimately was also a big catalyst for being able to keep so many players on both sides of the ball going into 2021?

AP: “I would say so, but I would also say that guys like Jackie Jones, Chase Lucas, and Evan Fields did have those opportunities. They were invited to some senior games, like the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine game, and those guys would possibly get NFL combine invites. Merlin Robertson could probably go to the NFL, no different than Aashari Croswell. I do think that there’s a certain taste in their mouth of unfinished business. But more importantly, though, they like playing for each other. Guys like being here. Most times, kids run from a program, run from a building, and our building is totally different than it was year one. It is like an ant farm. There are people moving in and out of the building, seeking knowledge or wanting to be there. They just want to be around the guys, and that's special, and that’s not just coaches, but players too.”

DevilsDigest: This is quite the testament to your players, that NFL scouts didn't care that there were only four games of film to look at. And obviously, I know they're looking at 2019 film too. But that shorten 2020 really didn't deter those talent evaluators from thinking that highly of those players…

AP: “Those guys are very talented players, and if they do what they’re supposed to do, they will be NFL players a year from now, training for the combine and getting ready for stuff like that. I think with everybody, you don't ever want to leave something you have the opportunity to finish. And we lost two games last year, which we had the lead the fourth quarter, and that that is the motivation for our team, to be honest. Every time you look at those games, or you're reminded of the score, and the outcome is shocking. And for a lot of our guys, that wasn't good enough. It doesn't matter how we ended; we did a great job of playing well against U of A and against Oregon State, where we played a lot of young guys. But we knew it didn't matter, we were not gonna play in a bowl game. These guys love to play for one another and you can never have enough guys like that.”

DevilsDigest: You and Marvin were co-defensive coordinators last year, what did you take away from that collaboration that you can bring to the table now as the sole defensive coordinator in 2021?

AP: “Step and repeat, double-check, triple-check over again, seek answers, seek knowledge, seek the why, know the why, less is more…probably the most important thing less is more. You don't have to do a lot of crazy things. You don't have to be so exotic and trick somebody that you trick yourself. Make sure that the kids are not fooled by what they're doing. And you see that in college, sometimes you see it in the NFL, and I think with us having such an older group now a better group; you can no longer use the term young, let them go out there and play. The game should be so slow for our seniors to our linebacker core, to our secondary, to our D-linemen; they've played a lot of football. Just let them go out and play.”

DevilsDigest: As you know, going to go into 2020 when everybody talked about the potential of the ASU defense, a lot of love was shown to the linebackers and the defensive backfield. Then you had the defensive line being spoken as maybe somewhat of a question mark. Yet, early on in spring practice, you said that their first-year position coach Robert Rodriguez was the spring practice MVP. And the way this defensive line played later on in the fall, I imagine that you're just counting your blessings, having a coach like that on staff…

AP: “Without a question and also retaining a defensive line coach for the first time in what, five, six years? Knock on wood. And I think that's so important to our guys because look at DJ Davidson – he has had four defensive line coaches. That’s too, too many. And Robert did a great job of one, gaining those guys’ trust. Those guys had to believe in him and listen to him, and then step and repeat the same thing every day and then going out there and applying it and seeing the results of it.

“To be honest, I didn't know what to expect from Michael Matus, and he’s probably the most improved player on our team. He’s a guy that played lights out versus USC and did a great job last season. Tyler Johnson, going back to putting his hand in the dirt, being very productive…(Rodriguez) just keeping our guys engaged and loving the game of football. I see them smile and see the results; I think that made us all happy.”

DevilsDigest: Another new staff addition on defense last year was Chris Hawkins. I know there’s the narrative that he was mainly brought here because of his recruiting abilities, but when you see how well the defensive backfield played, this naturally was NOT a case of those players performing at a high level without Hawkins’ influence. Looking at last year, what did he bring to the table for that group?

AP: “You're right, and with Chris, everybody had it wrong. I knew Chris could recruit, and that was the least of my worries. But what everybody didn't know that I knew is that this kid was a student of the game. I know Chris since he's 14 years old. I've watched him play when my son was in high school and in 7x7 teams. And I watched him at USC, constantly, them trying to beat him out, or out recruit him, and then becoming a team captain and leader on a Rose Bowl team. I knew how sharp and educated he was.

“And more importantly, I knew how he would relate to the players, motivate them and give them the energy and passion that they need to play. And they do, and they respect him. Is he young? Yeah, we were all young at some point; you got to be a first time for something. But hell, when people trust you, and they relate to you, they know that you're there, giving it your all…and at the end of the day, they did relate to you because you talked the same language, but more importantly, you showed that know what you're talking about. I think that's what goes unstated with him. He talks the talk; he brought a lot of coverages (concepts) everywhere last year. That was his input, and he had he brought those ideas, and credit to him.”

DevilsDigest: The USC to ASU coaching additions didn’t stop this year, with Chris Claiborne hired as the linebackers’ coach. I see this as another epitome of the Pro Model and truly with his background almost like an Antonio Pierce 2.0 hire with plenty of similarities…

AP: “When you want to step away from one position and move up and get elevated to the coordinator position, you want to make sure you leave the linebackers in good hands. You want to pass on the torch to somebody else and give them the same thin you received. Now Chris will put his own spin on it, his own lingo. But we come from the same tree. We both grew up in LA; we came out of high school the same year. Chris happened to be the more dominant player at that point; we got to the league, we played one year together. We coached together in 7x7; we competed against each other in high school.

"I know what he's made of; I know that our guys will look for him for the same questions and answers that they looked to get from me. And he will have those answers for them, and it will be very similar. Maybe a different tone, maybe delivered in a different way. But more importantly, we talk the same language, and we see things the same way. It's gonna be a true smooth transition, and with everything we got going on, you don't want any hiccups. There were some good guys who interviewed in that process for us. But the trust factor, the continuity, and the chemistry were just too great to pass over.”

DevilsDigest: going back to back to Marvin Lewis, so how is his role as special advisor to Herm Edwards going to look like this year? Where will he have his fingerprints showing?

AP: “In the details, in those special moments and those situations where somebody like him can anticipate it. You've seen it, you've done it before, and you got a feel for the game. Being a head coach, he's seen it at the highest level, and from the top down as a defensive coordinator, the game is slow to him. He sees things before they happen. I thought I was pretty good at it, and he's really good.

So having that set of eyes in the meeting rooms, as we do now, having those eyes on the sidelines, giving you input, prepping you going over your work, making sure you there's no stone unturned. That's what he's bringing not just to our defense but to our team, to our players, and our staff."

DevilsDigest: moving onto this linebacker group, I know you talked on many occasions prior to last year about Merlin Robertson and his development. He didn’t play as well as a sophomore compared to as he did as a freshman. But you were really optimistic that he could turn the page, and he did exactly that…

AP: “I thought he played well; I think there are always moments that we all look at where you wish someone made a play, but you go to that first game of the season, and he was a game-changer, with his interception and with energy. The way he played with physicality on some fourth-down stops. And then throughout the season and credit to the other guys like Kyle Soelle, who stepped his game up. What Merlin did was make guys around him better. Like I always say Darien Butler is the Robin to Merlin’s Batman. But Merlin is the guy that is accounted for every week when we played an opponent. They need to know where no. 8, we understand that. That's why we move him around so much. He's so unique that he can do so much for us. He can be a D-end, he can be a SAM linebacker, he can be an outside backer. I thought his season was somewhat unfinished; there are a few things that were left on the table that we don’t want to leave on the table. We want to eat everything on a plate, and that's what we want him to do this year.

“You look at him, and he's physically in shape. This offseason, he was dedicated when he got time off; he jumped right back into the weight room. More importantly, he's in the right place mentally. 2020 was a tough year for him because he lost his father, and with everything else that went on, he's turned that page, and I'm gonna say it now, he's a different guy than he was last year. He's walking around with a smile. He knows that this is the last dance, this is the last hurrah for him.”

DevilsDigest: I know you touched on it a little, but when you talk about steady performers on any position on the team, Darien Butler is one of the first names that come to mind…

“I don’t know how many players in ASU's history were 48-game starters. I know last year wasn't a full season, but he has been a consistent four-year starter for us. He has made a steady and constant improvement and has made game-changing plays for us his physicality, his emotion. He is the heartbeat of our team. When he gets going, and he's riled up, everybody else does. You always know what you’re gonna get out of Butler. You gotta protect him throughout the week because he's gonna physically hurt and damage anything in his way in order to get into Saturday, and that's what he does. That's what he brings.”

DevilsDigest: you referred to Kyle Soelle being a glue guy, and the fact that he was named a team captain really speaks for itself. It must be gratifying to have so much trust in a player when he repays that trust quite nicely now that he is an everyday starter?

AP: “I’ll be honest, when I first got here, I was told this guy might not ever play here, that he wasn't athletic enough, wasn't twitchy enough to play in space…and all I’ve seen him do each and every year is chop wood to last year being Pac-12 Honorable Mention and being a leader of our defense. He knows how I'm gonna run the defense this year, which is the way we ran last year, and he's gonna be the brains of operation again and be an extension of me to the field, to make the checks to get us in the right position to make sure everybody's lined up. And then also do his job because he can do that. You can't have enough of those players, that more importantly, are unselfish."

DevilsDigest: Let’s review the freshmen players in the linebacker group, starting with Caleb McCullough. What do you from him in terms of his development from spring practice all the way to the last game of 2020?

AP: “Every practice, every rep, he got better. And every game when he had the opportunity to get in, and he got his first opportunity against UCLA, the first play wasn't so good, that (UCLA) run was like 64 yards. And the next game, him having an interception against U of A and in his third game against Oregon State, seeing him really get a feel for the game, playing in the backfield, making tackles flying around. He looked very comfortable; his eyes weren’t wide. I wasn't seeing a deer in the headlights, and the sky's the limit, to be honest. He’s gonna push for playing time. There’s gonna be a lot of competition in that room.”

DevilsDigest: And that's the same question about Jordan Banks. So what did you see from him in terms of development?

AP: “I’ll put all of them (freshmen) together. Banks, Will Shaffer, and Connor Soelle are all guys who did a great job on the special teams' force. When they got the opportunity to play, they made plays, they make mistakes, and need more reps. Jordan banks is a very physical player who, for us, is outstanding on special teams because of his physicality, his demeanor, and that goes along with the other two gentlemen, Will Shaffer and Connor Soelle. Connor, whenever you were watching a game, was physically dominating people on special teams. He was a lightning rod to our unit because of his speed and aggressiveness. And Will is very similar to Butler, probably a little more athletic. He has the frame and body type to put out that same force to make an impact. I think he's gonna be a force to be reckoned with.”

DevilsDigest: I wanted to talk about the new additions in the 2021 class, starting with Jaydon Williams. I guess when you’re singled out by Herm Edwards in a press conference as a standout in a recruiting class, that is quite the statement…

AP: “If you watched any of his highlights or any of his games, he’s hell on wheels. He runs, and it will be interesting to see when he gets here because I’m gonna challenge my defensive backs to run with him. He's a guy that's very fluid, very wound tight as far as his ability to uncoil out of his hips and change direction. He loves ball, and his passion shows up on film. It jumps out of the film. I think that's what coach Edwards loves.”

DevilsDigest: And what are your thoughts on another newcomer linebacker, Eric Gentry?

AP: “Eric Gentry is here. And he’s all of 6’6, maybe 6’7. Maybe 6’8, I don’t know, he’s tall. The best thing for him was getting here, so you develop physically, and we expect to play this year. He's gonna have a unique role with us, because he can do a lot of things. He's gonna shock people with his athleticism for his size. But more importantly, he's a student of the game. You can't keep him out of the film room. You can’t show him enough (film) already. His first week down in the weight room…you have to kick him out. He’s that guy. And that's gonna be different and unique for our football team to have a 6’6 player running around the field who's pretty strong and athletic. I don't know we've had that here in our history, or maybe it’s been some time. But he's unique.”

DevilsDigest: And what’s crazy about Gentry and most of this recruiting class was the fact that their first day reporting to campus was their first time being on campus due to the recruiting visit resections last year. You’ve been recruiting those guys virtually, little to no in-person contact one day and then the next day you see each other in-person…

AP: “You ever watch that movie ‘You Got Mail’? That’s what it’s like – blind dating (laughs). You see these guys, and it’s like, ‘hey, how are you doing? Nice to meet you. You’re taller and bigger than I thought.’ I think we all looked at our offensive linemen, and that’s another example…Sione Veikoso is a guy we never saw him in-person. Hell, his game film is from 2017 (went on an LDS mission out of high school). You look at him, and he's giant (6’7 290 lbs.).

“I’ll tell you what, everybody's excited about the group of freshmen we brought in. Even our players are pretty shocked by the size, the length, and the mass of the guys that were brought in as freshmen. So it's good to see when your veterans are shocked at how well and good looking your freshman class is. It’s fun to see.”

DevilsDigest: And when we look at this staff from top to bottom, it’s impossible not to feel that this is one group of coaches that has a lot of good recruiters. As successful as you have been with the recruiting classes in the last few years, I got to believe that the bar for the 2022 recruiting class is way up there…

AP: “Well, it’s no different than our 2021 season. Within our building, we always thought that our fourth year would be the year we can do something special on the grass. And we thought our 2022 class, will be the best one that we've had here. And that's the plan that we put together. And that's why we put this staff together and made the hires that we've made, and the guys that have been promoted within to certain positions. It is a credit to all the hard work that everybody's been doing behind the scenes. Sometimes AP gets too much credit, Herm gets too much credit, and you forget about the guy that's doing the groundwork, the grunt work behind, and when they got the opportunity they stepped up and helped us be a better program.”

DevilsDigest: Even though the 2020 season was a small sample size, it sounds as if you feel that that you were able to show enough on the field to entice those 2022 recruits to really take a long, hard look at ASU?

AP: “Without a question. Even with our record, ASU has always been talked about nationally. We are in the daily conversation; we are a team that’s on the ticker for all the right reasons. If it’s guys getting promoted within, looked at for other job opportunities, our recruits signing with us, or our guy Frank Darby playing in the Senior Bowl. ASU is resonating on your phone, and we're hitting your notifications.”

DevilsDigest: Looking at spring practice’s goals for this Sun Devil defense, some may say it’s really simple: ‘you have the keys to the Porsche, don't crash it.’ But in all seriousness, what do you want this defense to look like at the end of those 15 sessions?

AP: “Mentally tough. Not folding when we have a bad play, not folding when the momentum goes against, very similar to what happened to us versus USC. Finishing, which we didn't do versus UCLA. And having that mentality, the energy, that passionate and that fire we had in the last two games. That's what we want to look like every day. (Former ASU defensive coordinator) Danny Gonzalez really did a good job with our defense year one getting us to play with a certain type of intensity and speed to the ball, and we obviously have to elevate that in the spring. But more importantly, we need to be more detailed, and when you watch us play, it looks clean. It looks right. Realizing, ‘oh, I know what he's doing. I know the mistake.’

“When you watch good football like we’re going to watch here in about ten days on Super Bowl Sunday, that's beautiful football. It looks good. It looks right. That's what we want to look like. We want to look the part. We want to represent not only ourselves, ASU, but what college football should really look like. It shouldn't be spaghetti on the plate.”

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