Following a 7-6 campaign, there is certainly no shortage of shortcomings that hindered the Sun Devils’ offensive performance. In our second and last part of our interview with Rob Likens, ASU’s offensive coordinator discusses at length the various aspects his group will need to examine and correct for the upcoming season.

DevilsDigest: Looking back at 2018 what are the facets that pleased you, and which elements were you less than pleased with?

Rob Likens: “Well, the less than pleased (item) was we’ve got to solve the third quarter (struggles), which is crazy because in my past in the offenses that I’ve been associated with we’ve always been really good in that area. I’m going to go back, study it extremely hard now that we got some time and look at it and hopefully, we’ll have a better answer.

“I understand fans’ frustration, we were frustrated, we knew it, players were frustrated. Sometimes maybe you talk about something too much and it’s in your head too much but it definitely is deserving to be looked at. I want to be better on third downs doing that I thought we could’ve been better. I got some ideas of how we can be better on third downs where we give the quarterback more leeway to have two calls, change things at the line of scrimmage. Been watching several NFL teams, and I’ve been studying the heck out of some of the best offenses in the NFL and watching how they do stuff. I’ve talked to Jared (Goff) about some stuff, I’ve talked to some of my friends in the NFL and I’m excited to try those out in spring.

“Our pass game wasn’t consistent enough for me, I’d like to get better at that. The things that I was pleased was our run game. What these coaches did with what we had and the game plans we came up with to run the football and the things that we did was great. Just teaming up a play-action game to go along with it, I’d like to be better at that, get more production out of the play-actions off of the run game. To me, everything is how you practice and getting the culture of how your kids approach practice every day to me is everything and I thought that we laid a really good foundation for that. And so, very excited about the future, and obviously we’ve got some holes to fill.”

DevilsDigest: The defense under Danny Gonzales significantly improved from 2017. From an offensive coordinator perspective, how much did that unit help you get better as you practiced against it every day?

Rob Likens: “It helps us in several ways, and in some ways, it’s tough because it’s so nontraditional. Where it helps you is it teaches your guys to learn defensive structure and attitudes of guys who are blitzing, who’s not blitzing if those guys came from here what could happen over here. All that stuff really, really, helped our center, our quarterback, our offensive line and pass protecting and seeing all of the different looks and preparing for all of that.

“Where it’s tough on you as an offense is that you’re not seeing some of the traditional schemes you’re going to see during the season. But I do love the speed of all of it and all the blitz pick-ups- you hate going through it, but you know this is going to make us a lot better.”

DevilsDigest: You look at the running game, and obviously what Eno Benjamin has accomplished was unbelievable. Yet, as a whole in terms of that aspect as a component of the offense, were some factors that could have been better?

Rob Likens: “When I look at the running game in general, I’d like to get better at a few things. I think with the success of the run game you start saying ‘well we could do this, and then we could do this,’ and then you look up and sometimes I felt like maybe we had a little too much going into some games. I just think that we just need to trust the fact that we’re going to be good at this and we’re just going to make them stop us.

“So, I like what we did in the run game and I thought that we overcompensated for a lack of a passing game and I’d just like to be just a little bit more balanced off of that, and definitely like to get better at screens, which I thought at the end of the year really helped us, and bailed us out. I think the more we can get the ball in those running backs hands is good. And then I thought the offensive line, their toughness at times, was not pleased with the bowl game, the whole offense, the way we came out in that game, so we got to fix that.

“That’s going to be the first thing I address when the kids get back is what happened in the bowl game. Fans are probably asking that, I’m asking that - I didn’t like the bowl game, I didn’t like the way we handled the second half of that game. It really ticked me off and that needs to be addressed so that never happens again. You don’t go twelve games and then all of a sudden you show up like that against a really good Fresno team…it shouldn’t have looked like that. I hadn’t slept really well since that game, I really haven’t. I didn’t have a great Christmas break because of it, it really left a really bad taste in my mouth, so we got to get that addressed. But I loved the consistency of our run game. I thought we did a good job of bringing that run game into every game, and I thought the thing that was inconsistent was our passing game.”

DevilsDigest: I know we heard so much about Eno being one of those running backs that really could use 20 to 25 carries not only from a production standpoint due to his mentality of getting better and better the more carries h gets. Having said that are you wanting to develop a solid no. 2 running back that can perhaps average more than ten carries a game?

Rob Likens: “Anytime you get competition somewhere it makes the starter better. So, we need to get better at second-team running back around here. And we got some guys that are capable of doing it, and the big thing about it - they got to embrace their role until they are the starter.

“You can’t just go ‘well he’s the starter so I’m only going to play 10 snaps,’ well those 10 snaps need to be your résumé, your audition for when you are the starter. So, we just need to have some guys really take that role seriously, and I thought Isaiah (Floyd) in the second half of the season practiced his butt off. He did a great job, and I thought he came in and ran really hard, so he started embracing that role. I think once we get some guys competing at a high level at that role- I think that’s just going to make Eno better.

“But yes, I think we need to be able to where if Eno wants a break or if he comes out of the game that we’re not losing too much when he comes out of there.”

DevilsDigest: Shaun Aguano has been hired as the running backs’ coach. What are your thoughts about his addition to the staff?

Rob Likens: “The reason he’s going to be in that (coaches’) room isn’t 100 percent because of his coaching ability but it’s also a testament to the type of man that he is. And Herm, and myself the way we believe, this thing has got to be a family atmosphere. I spent so much time at the (coaches’) convention talking to head coaches about culture. But what was funny, they weren’t talking about the culture of their football team, nobody even mentioned their team. They were talking about their staff and how hard it is to create a good, consistent culture on your coaching staff. Guys are coming in and leaving, and how hard it is to go get this guy, is he going to fit in the room with this guy?

“We knew instantly Shaun is going to fit in perfectly with our family, and then the fact that he’s a really good coach, he was a running back - he’s done all that. And then the recruiting piece of it…to me it was just a no-brainer.”

DevilsDigest: So you talk about the chemistry of the staff, and I know a lot was said wanting to keep a lot of things the same on offense from 2017 to 2018. How do you evaluate that aspect and did it come together as well as you thought it was going to materialize?

Rob Likens: “Oh it was it was great, and you know if you watched us on offense you saw a piece of every one of our assistant coaches’ personalities, which I want. I want that, I don’t want this to be about me, I want it to be about us, and Herm’s fingerprint on the whole thing.

“Charlie Fischer came from a big background in pro-style offense, quarterback under center, play actions. That dig route that N’Keal (Harry) ran for the touchdown against Utah that’s a play that Charlie brought to this offense. The mentality of our offensive line and the way those guys run the zone (blocking) and how good we got at the zone was Dave Christensen and the things he’s brought from his past. Some of the screens and the way that Eno runs the ball and all of that stuff, John Simon’s fingerprint. I thought that Tommy Hudson the role he had and how he played so hard that was Donnie Yantis’s work and I saw that through Tommy Hudson.

“I’m excited, because the first whole month of last year at this time we were all getting to know each other with the new coaching staff. And this year we’re going to spend all of that time talking about what worked, what didn’t work and what we can improve on from last year. So, I’m very excited about that.”

DevilsDigest: Speaking of the tight end role, I know fans are just clamoring for that position to be a bigger part of the passing game. Do you feel this is one area we can see significant change this year?

Rob Likens: “Yes I do, and I’m looking forward to that, especially when Nolan Matthews gets here, who’s pretty athletic. We’re going to move (former wide receiver) Curtis Hodges there. So, , you’re going to get more different looks there. Like I said, once a guy proves that he’s worthy of getting the ball we’re going to try to get him the ball.

“I know what you’re talking about, getting the tight end more involved more in the pass game and there’s a lot of stuff that goes into that. Though you can’t just say ‘hey let’s throw the ball to the tight end’ just like you know I know a lot of fans are always going ‘why don’t we throw the ball to N’Keal?’ Well, there’s three guys covering him. You can’t just throw it to a guy if you want to, that’s why we moved him around a lot. We put him in the backfield, put him here, put him there. So, there’s a lot that goes into it, and I agree we do need to spread the ball out a little bit more.”

DevilsDigest: I know you weren’t pleased with the bowl game and that was the first time we got to see, as a lot of fans say, ‘life after N’Keal Harry.’ I know the bowl game in and of itself can’t be a definitive indicator of what we can expect the passing game to look like in 2019. Yet, what are your expectations of this unit now absent one of the best wide receivers to ever play for ASU?

Rob Likens: “They (the wide receivers) got to get better running their routes, they got to embrace their roles. When it comes to competition, as I addressed with the backup running back group, is that when you have a great player, you can’t just be a wide receiver and go ‘well you know when N’Keal leaves I’m going to do my deal.’ You can’t have that attitude. You got to go out there and try to beat N’Keal out every day in practice. And so, not all of the time did I feel that was going on around here.

“I can’t wait to talk to these guys in the spring and address that. You got to have confidence in yourself and we got to have guys step up, and we got to improve with the development of some receivers around here and they got to do it fast. So, I’m looking forward to that challenge in the spring. The passing game is really good when you’re throwing it to the guy who’s open, whoever it is. Like we had at Cal, like with Mike Leach has at Washington State. It’s not a one-man show, because it’s pretty. If you ask Danny (Gonzales) on defense you can shut down a one-man show deal, but when it’s a three-man show, well now that’s a little bit harder. You take, for instance, look at the team that was 5-0 last year in our conference (Colorado). They lose a couple players, they’re 0-6. You’re going, what the heck, right? That can’t happen. And so, I don’t want to be that. So, these other guys, they got to get better. I want to have four really good receivers.”

DevilsDigest: Can having a veteran wide receiver group that really has a lot of potential, be negated by a very green quarterback throwing them the ball? As the saying goes a wide receiver can’t throw the ball to themselves and therefore their production hinges a lot a lot on the quarterback. Do you feel that that dynamic is something that maybe can adversely affect the wide receiver group?

Rob Likens: “I see what you’re saying and I agree. But what I’m saying- and I’m not afraid to state it publicly- is that there are some guys here that haven’t taken the approach themselves to be developed to this point and I just don’t think that they’ve approached it- not all of them- but there are a couple guys that need to step up, they need to get better.”

DevilsDigest: So, don’t worry who the quarterback is, worry about yourself?

Rob Likens: “You just worry about you getting better and doing it right and, I know what we’re coaching them, and I know- because one thing I can say that I’ve had a lot of experience with and that’s developing wide receivers and we got some guys that got to do better- they got to take it upon themselves to do a better job this spring.”

DevilsDigest: Some are really kind of scratching their heads about Kyle Williams’ production being night and day in ‘17 and ’18. Not to excessively shine the light just on him because there were some other issues that affected the offense, but what do you think happened over there and why is 2019 going to be different for him in your opinion?

Rob Likens: “It’s kind of hard to say because I’d have to go back and look (at the film). He was an outside receiver last year, so he was getting the same catches that Frank (Darby) and Brandon Aiyuk were getting, and he started all those games on the outside. So, he was playing a little bit different position this year (slot), so that could’ve had something to do with it.

“The emergence of our run game where we’ve started running the ball more, we started to become more of a ball-control offense. I cannot wait to look at how many drives we had this year (2018) compared to how many drives we had last year. I want to look and compare a lot of different things because we kind of, at times, we went away from tempo. Tempo gives you more opportunities but it also puts your defense out on the field a little more too, so I’d like to sit down and study that stuff first before I say anything, but I’m really interested to look at all of that.”

DevilsDigest: But having said that you still feel Kyle will still be in the slot in 2019?

Rob Likens: “Yes, I think that’s his natural position, I do think though he does some things outside that he’s better than some of the other guys at. So, I’m going to be more cognizant of being able to switch him, which I think you saw that towards the end of the season where we would make some switches and put the outside guys inside and the inside guys outside. I wanted those guys to be able to be interchangeable so they can take advantage of what they do really well.”

DevilsDigest: Year one with Herm Edwards, how did that dynamic between both of you work?

Rob Likens: “I just love that man. He makes it a pleasure- I’m telling you, when you get out of your car everyday in the parking lot and you’re whistling and you can’t wait to get up to your office and you have a whole building of people like that it’s just infectious to the team.

“Then the team comes to practice like that, and that’s what he brings to the table. You love the guy, you want to work hard for him, you don’t want to disappoint him, you want him to be successful just because of your relationship with him and I just think you saw that in the team. I think the kids never ever gave up because then they didn’t want to come back to the sideline and look into his eyes and disappoint him.”

DevilsDigest: On a broader scale looking the new leadership model that Athletic Director Ray Anderson talked about when Herm Edwards was hired, how do you evaluate that structure in year one from your own personal perspective?

Rob Likens: “Everything rises and falls upon leadership. But you look at the top of it is our president, you look at that, and just being able to kind of get ahead of the curve, always thinking ahead of the curve, thinking outside the box, trying to get a gauge on where things are headed and being the frontrunners of it.

“I thought he did a great job of wanting to do this NFL model, Ray Anderson thought the same thing. How courageous was that? I’ve told Herm this, I’m one of the first people when he got hired that went ‘Herm Edwards, what are you kidding me? The guy that’s on ESPN?’ And now if you were in that building everyday, you’d understand why. I get why they went out and did something that people didn’t think could be done. I get it, if you just were around him, so I get it, I understand now. Probably the biggest difference is the recruiting department, I think that’s been amazing as you can see. So, I think it’s been wonderful, and I’ve got all the respect in the world for the people that made those courageous decisions to do this.”

DevilsDigest: If you had a top three list of spring practice goals for the offense what would that list consist of?

Rob Likens: “Number one I want us to practice at a championship level, and I’ve had the luxury of being a part of three national championships- even though they were in Division II. I’ve had a chance to be part of the best offense in the country and one of the best offenses in the history of college football and there is a specific way practice looks, we haven’t attained that here and I want to get closer to that and I want the kids to understand what that looks like.

“That’s one of my main goals is when I watch practice, whether a play is successful or not, the way the kids approach practice at a championship level to make it look like national championship level that’s my main goal.

“Obviously quarterback, you know you got to find a way to get those guys to separate themselves from each other. And then, since Eno’s not going to get tackled a lot in spring practice. We know he can run the football so we’re not going to run him up in between the tackles for fifteen practices. that would be stupid. So, we need to find out how our run game looks like without Eno and that would entail as you said, who is that second-tier running back that will come in first when Eno takes a blow, and everyone’s going to have an opportunity to show those things.”

Make sure you catch the first part of our interview with Rob Likens where he discusses the most burning topic facing the ASU offense – the four-man battle for starting quarterback.