We sat down with ASU’s co-defensive coordinator and recruiting coordinator to discuss a new recruiting approach in the East Coast, Sun Devils’ new defensive scheme and more. Here's our first part of this extensive interview.

DevilsDigest: You said you hit the recruiting trail and went from New York from Miami. Did you drive?

Antonio Pierce: “Yeah. (Interstate) 95. I’ll pull up a picture so you can look at it.”

He pulls up a map of the United States with pins scattered across the country, indicating prospective recruits. The majority are east of the Mississippi. The coastline is flooded with dots.

“So, pretty much what we did, our staff put together what we felt was our type of guys DNA-wise. So you can see why we did it (made the road trip). You have 25 or so guys here (pointing to the West Coast). So what I did is I started (in New York) and went all the way down. (I drove) some and plane hopped. But I hit mostly up until Virginia. Tony White at the time had (North) Carolina and South Carolina and then I had all the way down to Miami.”

DevilsDigest: Just in terms of the areas where the dots are at, it matches up well to where the Top 300 kids are consistently every year…

Antonio Pierce: “This isn’t even (about) stars. This is just 6-(foot)-5, 6-3, 6-4 -- the height and the length. Some players are good. Some players are better than the others. For us, it was just -- you look at it, we have the entire Pac-12 fighting over, just say it’s 40 guys here (pointing to the West Coast) and I can hit this corridor (pointing to some small spot east of the Mississippi) and hit 40. Just look at the numbers. And a lot of those guys are Group of 5 and what happens is, when you look at it, Alabama and Georgia are getting the one-percenters -- Clemson is getting the one-percenters. Well we’re trying to get the Group-of-5 level (talent) or if we can get in early enough, the Power 5 guy that gets knocked down from the Georgia and your top-tier Power 5 programs that are getting those players. And we will.”

DevilsDigest: Is the thought that once you form relationships at those East Coast schools then you can start going after the solidified Power 5 guys?

Antonio Pierce: “I’ve got it on my calendar -- April 15. You see it. On the road. East Coast. Gone. (Pierce points to a calendar he has hanging in his office with the April 15 date marked up for the start of another East Coast recruiting trip) … I’m going to be there for two or three weeks and hit all the schools (I visited for the first time in January) again.”

DevilsDigest: When you guys talk about profiles, do you have a chart for what height players at each position should be?

Antonio Pierce: “Yes. What we want to do going forward for the D-line is 6-4 and above. Linebackers, this year, we’ll go a little bit taller. Corners are always between 5-10 and 6-feet. If he’s 5-9, he better be dynamic and the best player on the field. Wide receiver, we do want to be a little bigger. Running back, either extremely fast or a thumper and obviously we would love to get another Eno Benjamin, but those are hard to find. But, yeah, we have measurables that we’re going off of and, especially for this year’s class, that we want to be dialed into.”

DevilsDigest: Does that make it easier for the whole staff and everybody behind the scenes that they know what they’re looking for?

Antonio Pierce: “Yes, but you’ll offer a guy who maybe doesn’t fit your DNA but he’s a good football player, he has speed, he has a certain skill set. But that’s pretty much our deal this year in the ‘21 class, we’re going to have a lot of length. A lot of length.”

DevilsDigest: Is the defensive line the biggest question mark of the team right now?

Antonio Pierce: “Well just for a four-down (front), you want taller ends and bigger guys and guys in throwing lanes. That’s what we’re missing. We have two players over 6-4. That’s it. Two players.”

DevilsDigest: Was that weird when you came to ASU?

Antonio Pierce: “I wasn’t used to it. You look at all the guys I played with -- (Michael) Strahan. When you’re in the huddle and you’re always looking up to guys. When I got here, I was equal height with our D-linemen. And for the most part, my linebackers were the same height.

“Merlin (Robertson) is 6-3. Kyle Soelle is 6-3. Tyler Johnson was 6-4. Ok, (5-foot-11 linebacker Darien) Butler is an exception. But (freshman linebacker Jordan) Banks is 6-1, 6-2. (Freshman linebacker Caleb) McCullough, they’re almost eye-level with the D-linemen. That’s not normal. I’m not used to it.”

DevilsDigest: By using those profiles, though, would you have found maybe a Kobe Williams or even yourself?

Antonio Pierce: “Yeah. Kobe was my starter for two years at Poly with Iman Marshall and Jackie Jones.”

DevilsDigest: But let’s say Kobe Williams played somewhere else, would you have found him?

Antonio Pierce: “I found Darien Butler (at Narbonne High School). (Redshirt freshman corner) Jordan Clark is going to be another Kobe-Williams type. You look at the last name and his dad (former NFL defensive back Ryan Clark) and the heritage, you know what you’re getting. But he’s like that. I do (think we would have found Kobe).

“You know it’s funny because you look at small 6-1,6-2 -- I was small at that era (when I was coming out of high school) when they wanted 6-4, 6-5 linebackers (who were) 240-, 250-(pounds). In today’s game, I would have been the ideal guy because I’m 6-1, 6-2, 230 and can run.”

When you look at that map of all the prospects, realistically how many linemen do you think ASU can get in 2021?

Antonio Pierce: “Our goal is to get 10 in two years. It’s a two-year plan. Five and five. Four and six. Now don’t get me wrong, we’re going to be recruiting guys on the West Coast. And again, If it was ideal, we’d guy five guys this year and there would maybe be three from (the East Coast) and two from (the West Coast). Maybe it’s three and two. I don’t know. We’ll see as we’re recruiting and I think we’re making headway with a lot of guys. Some prominent guys.

“And if we’re winning in the months of November and December and we’re playing in January or late December, I think we give ourselves a chance to get those players. Those guys (good prospects on the East Coast) want to play for winning programs. They’re not coming across the country just to play. It’s going to be key that we’re winning. If we can win and put a good product on the field and defensively, show them how we’re going to use them now and they can visually see it and we don’t have to draw it up on the paper, I think it works for us.”

DevilsDigest: What do you mean when you say “Drawing it on paper?”

Antonio Pierce: “Well, because of our defense prior (the 3-3-5 scheme), we weren’t able to do that. Those defensive ends were tucked to the side. Now, every once in a while we were in front where they were outside coming off the edge and doing that. They’re not dumb. Colleges that are recruiting against us aren’t dumb. As good as that defense was -- from a statistics standpoint, from winning a lot of games -- it hurt us a little bit recruiting that position. A No. 1 recruit in the country who’s a defensive end is not going to come here if he’s not on the edge. He wants to be an edge guy, right? So that makes it difficult.”

DevilsDigest: So, for example, Oregon defensive end Kayvon Thibodeaux, who was the nation’s top recruit last year?

Antonio Pierce: “Correct. He knows he’s not going inside. He’s 240, 235. Everything he does is off the corner, off the edge.”

DevilsDigest: So, this year the defense shifting to a 4-3 scheme?

Antonio Pierce: “It will be a four-down look. But I think there will be a lot of different looks by personnel. If they (the opponent) are in 10 personnel, I don’t know. But there are going to be times when we have the odd fronts and the exotic looks, you need that. You’ve gotta have that. Nothing wrong with that. But that will be a change up for us instead of our base, every-down look.”

DevilsDigest: Are you nervous at all that the guys recruited to play in the 3-3-5 scheme could struggle?

Antonio Pierce: “Well, the good part about it is, most of the guys we recruited, I recruited them. And I viewed it as football players and they could do multiple things. I think up front when we had Stephon (Wright), we thought Stephon could play D-end, three-technique, and nose (tackle). And he can still do that today. (Redshirt freshman 6-foot-6 defensive lineman) Amiri Johnson is a little bit different. I knew he had to be outside and I was just hoping we could find a place for him and adjust the defense to him. Well, now he’s a D-end. (Junior defensive lineman) Jermayne Lole is a three-technique or end, that’s what he is. (Junior) D.J. (Davidson) is a nose. (Sophomore) T.J. (Pesefea) is a nose, it fits him.

“We’re fine. The pieces to the puzzle fit. We just need more of them. We only have 11 defensive linemen on scholarship. We want to be between 15 and 18. That’s our goal, that’s our number.”

DevilsDigest: And you believe 10 of those defensive linemen should come in the next two years?

Antonio Pierce: “Yep. And we only lose one guy next year and maybe two or three the following year. But if you’re bringing in seven, we’re plus.”

DevilsDigest: Do you think changing the defense to a four-down look will make a drastic difference in recruiting linemen?

Antonio Pierce: “Look at the Pac-12. It’s mostly spread (concepts) and you get a lot of one-on-one blocking schemes, you get a lot of slide protection. You’re going to have the opportunity to rush the passer, which all these guys want to do, get after the quarterback. Just the ample opportunities of the scheme and systems that we play against should help us recruit those guys.

“And also, look who’s coaching you. Look who your DCs are. Look who your D-line coach is now (Robert Rodriguez the former Minnesota Vikings assistant defensive line coach), look at who he just coached in Minnesota -- and those guys are about to get some really good money, No. 99 (Danielle Hunter). So I think we have a lot of really good selling points and a lot of good things going for us.”

DevilsDigest: Especially when recruiting on the East Coast, how much do you use your connections as a staff?

Antonio Pierce: “That’s all it is. It’s hard for me to go to Mississippi, to be honest. Not a lot of connections there … East Coast is a little different. Myself, Marvin Lewis, Herman Edwards, Kevin Mawae, a lot of us have been there. Robert Rodriguez, he’s in the Midwest. We have ties and, in reality, we have a brand within a brand.”

DevilsDigest: Do you start to go through your Rolodex of your New York Giants teammates and looking for which ones are high school coaches?

Antonio Pierce: “Where are they coaching at and where are their kids? I’ve got about four offers coming out on August 1, once they hit high school. They’ve got a couple of good players coming up. But, obviously, that helps out. A lot of guys that I’ve played with our coaching. When I went down to Miami, (former NFL cornerback) Pat Surtain (is now the head coach of American Heritage School in Florida) … (former NFL running back) Robert Edwards. There’s a ton of NFL connections and guys I played with in college or NFL still on the eastern border that we have relationships with.

“And then some guys, coach Edwards coached, Marvin Lewis coached. And when you walk in, (the high school coaches) are like, ‘Oh, when you see those guys, tell them I said hello.’ So you break the ice out of the gate so it makes it much easier to talk to the coaches and those guys are much more open about what’s going on.”

DevilsDigest: You mention that and incoming freshman D.J. Taylor, his coach played under Herm and said that made the process so much easier.

Antonio Pierce: “Trust. Trust factor. You take out the uncertainty. If they can trust you, you have an opportunity to recruit that kid.”

DevilsDigest: What do you remember about the 2002 Washington Redskins? Marvin Lewis was your defensive coordinator, but you went 7-9 and gave up almost 23 points a game, which was 21st in the league that year.

Antonio Pierce: “I think overall defense, we were probably Top 5. (The Redskins did allow the fifth-fewest yards per game in the NFL that season.) We were loaded. I remember at linebacker, in front of me was LaVar Arrington, Jessie Armstead, Jeramiah Trotter, three guys who had just played in the Pro Bowl the year before. Champ Bailey, we were loaded defensively. Like if you look at that defensive roster, it’s a who’s who. Bruce Smith, Dan Wilkinson -- No. 1 draft picks. Champ Bailey, hall of famer. You know, Darrell Green -- Hall of famer.

“The problem with that team was we didn’t score a lot of points offensively. (Head coach) Steve Spurrier and that offense at the time didn’t work very well. We lit it up in the preseason. Actually, the best game we ever had -- before the Patriots went on that 21-game winning streak, we were the last team to beat them (in 2003) … We had an all-star staff. We had Hue Jackson over there, we had a lot of good coaches. George Edwards. But what I learned from it was, obviously Marvin was two years removed from that Baltimore Ravens defense (that won the Super Bowl in 2000), and there were just some things that he instilled. The discipline, the attention to details and it was simple. It was simple.”

DevilsDigest: So, Marvin made his scheme very simplistic?

Antonio Pierce: “When you have really, really good players, you don’t need to do a lot. When you don’t have good players, you need to do a lot. You have to mask it and do charades. But when you have guys who can go, you let them go. We feel like we have guys that can go. Those guys have been playing for three years.”

DevilsDigest: And you feel you can make it simple for them?

Antonio Pierce: “It will be. They’ve already said it. We’ve already had meeting time with them. The thinking is gone, there’s no more thinking. We’re not going to confuse anyone, they are going to know exactly what we’re going to do. We’re just going to whoop their ass up front. And that’s what it comes down to: We just feel like our guys are going to be better than the personnel.

“In the NFL, you attack personnel. It’s not so much scheme. If that left guard or right guard is weak, you attack him all game long. You don't let up. In college sometimes, you get away from that. You just keep coming up with more plays and just go faster and faster. Just hone in on one thing and dominate that. If you just whoop on that, you’re probably going to make one or two plays that change the outlook of the game by attacking that player.”

DevilsDigest: Do you have to change that scheme Marvin used with the Redskins to fit college players or can you somewhat plug-and-play because you have players with experience?

Antonio Pierce: “Experience and then the skillset. We have guys who can cover. All we’ve done the last two years is play man coverage. Basically, it was zero coverage behind us, so they’re used to doing that. Now, when you give them a breather every once in a while, you give them a little zone drops, a couple of blitzes where everyone is hitting their targets, their exit points, everybody knows where they’re fitting. Then you win the matchups.

“Again, I’m going to keep coming back to matchups, it’s about people and personnel -- attacking the people and recognizing the personnel and formations you’re seeing.”

DevilsDigest: Do you think you got away from that in the last two years?

Antonio Pierce: “No, I think that’s college football overall. And it’s not a knock on anybody, it’s just college football overall. Offensive coordinators, everybody we play, it kind of happens like that. but, I think, where we’re coming from now is just slowing the game down for these guys. Slow it down for them and let them understand formations, recognize what’s happening in front of them so they’re not thinking and they can just play fast and their vision is not so wide, it’s narrowed down to what they need to see -- their keys and their reads and they play faster.

“The game of football is simple. I think sometimes we do too much. And I’ll go back to when I played when we won the Super Bowl, we didn’t do a lot. It looked like we did. We didn’t do a lot. We just executed at a high level and when you do that, most of the time you’re good players are going to make plays.”

DevilsDigest: On game days, is it going to Marvin up in the booth and you on the sideline?

Antonio Pierce: “That’s what it’s looking like so far. We haven’t finalized anything. We’re only about 10 days into this bad boy. It changed really fast around here. It’s kind of like the weather -- one day it was sunny then it got cloudy. It’s like, OK, now it’s clear again. We’re good.”

DevilsDigest: Do you remember who your first NFL interception came against?

Antonio Pierce: “Jake Plummer. First sack, Jake Plummer. First sack was here (at Sun Devil Stadium on December 9, 2001). I think I told Jake, I’m not sure if he remembers. First sack came here in this stadium as a starter. And then 9-11 happened that year, so our game (against the Arizona Cardinals, originally scheduled for Week 2) got pushed back to the end of the season. It was snowing and raining. I had the running back and Jake, it was a screen play and I jumped it and Jake threw the interception. We kicked a field goal and won the game. We went 8-8 with (head coach) Marty Schottenheimer. My coach got fired but I had a good rookie season.”

DevilsDigest: Have you talked to Jake about it?

Antonio Pierce: “I’ve poked at him a little bit. But I’m kind of in his stadium. I’m in his house. One night, when we have a couple of drinks and we’re around the golf course, somehow I’ll get him pretty good.”

DevilsDigest: Going back to your days as a player, what do you remember most about your time at Paramount High School?

Antonio Pierce: “Playing behind Michael Fletcher (who went on to play linebacker at Oregon and then in the CFL). We grew up together. Fletcher was kind of this All-American guy. He was a quarterback, he was a basketball player, he ran track, he dated the prettiest girl in school. And I was the younger guy so I was always underneath him. I was younger, I played my senior year at 16-years old. I didn’t turn 17 until week nine (of my senior year), which is October 26. So I remember being younger but I was taller. I just hadn’t filled out. Stronger, I was strong, but I was 190, 195 max.

“I played linebacker and we ran the option, so I was like the fullback. I had a good junior season running the ball. I had a really good senior year tackling. Made every honor, was in the top of the backers in California. It was me, Chris Claiborne (and a few others). I was too cool for school my sophomore year, so I had to go JuCo. But, what I remember is, we played against Dominguez (High School), they had a good football program there. I played against a lot of guys that years later wound up playing in the league. It was kind of cool.

“It was a good time in our area. It wasn’t in the mold of everyone transferring or playing for privates. You played for your hometown where you grew up at, your neighborhood school. You just went at it.”

DevilsDigest: What did you mean ‘Too cool for school’ during your sophomore year?

Antonio Pierce: “You know, I’m a football player -- one of the best football players in the city, in the school. You don’t do all of your homework. You skip a class here and there and the teacher doesn't make up for you at the end of the year and then you realize on your report card that it didn't happen that way.”

DevilsDigest: Was there ever a thought that you were going to go D1 out of high school after that?

Antonio Pierce: “I thought I did (qualify) because there was no internet so nobody told me that mattered that if your GPA dropped a little bit your test scores needed to average out. Back then, coaches weren’t as active with recruiting their players, so you kind of did it all on your own. My mom and dad, they didn’t go to college, they don’t know anything about football. So I was eligible for football. They said I had a high enough score on the SAT but nobody told me the scale didn’t add up.

“So, all of a sudden, I’m wondering why all of my visits are getting rejected and I’m not going on visits. Guys are asking about Prop 48 (NCAA regulation that regulates the grades and test score high school students must meet to play college athletics) at the time and I didn’t get it. There was no Google. You had to go to the library. You had to go to the career center and stuff. I’m like, ‘What?’ And next thing you know, it’s signing day happens and you don’t have your letter to sign.

“Biggest eye-opener for me. One of the best players in the state played in all the top all-star games but you’re the only guy going to JuCo. Embarrassing. I was embarrassed. Most humbling moment of my life -- by far.”

DevilsDigest: When did you realize you weren’t going D1?

Antonio Pierce: “Around February. January is coming and I took one visit and then all the rest of them kind of backed off and I’m like, ‘What? I’m ready to sign. I want to go to school.’ Because I had already been there several times -- Oregon, USC. I went up to Oregon State. Arizona State didn’t recruit me at the time. U of A did a little bit and next thing you know signing day comes and the coach is like, ‘Yeah, you need to look at your test scores and what the NCAA says.’ Then you go to your clearinghouse, and that was a whole other process back then. You had to mail it in and then you got your paper and you open it and it says you’re not a qualifier. It’s like, ‘What? What does that mean?’ And then you have to go back to the library.

“It was so drawn out and then you realize like, ‘Damn, that’s it, I have to go to JuCo.’ And then, all of the sudden, junior colleges are recruiting you and you’re like, ‘I don’t want to go to junior college. What do you mean?’ Then you make the most out of it, and I did. I went up to (Mt. San Antonio College) and had a hell of a time there and a good career there. It was fun.”

DevilsDigest: How tough was that as all your teammates are signing their papers on signing day and you’ve got nothing?

Antonio Pierce: “Well the guys I grew up with like Brandon Manumaleuna, Ortege Jenkins, Dennis Northcutt, we were all the same year. It was weird because they wound up going to Arizona and I would up going there two years later but it was like, ‘Damn.’ It’s humbling. I didn’t cry but I was mad. I was mad at myself. You can’t be mad at anyone else. If you want to point the finger like, ‘Oh, it’s the coaches fault.’ I did that at one point but then I realized like, that’s on me. I should have known better. I should have asked more questions. I should have been more of a forward-thinker and not assuming. I assumed and I assumed wrong.”

Click here for part 2 of our interview

Click here for part 3 of our interview

Join us on our premium message board, the Devils’ Huddle, to discuss this article and other ASU football and recruiting topics. Not a member yet? Sign up today here and join your fellow Sun Devil fans!